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can you be religious and do philosophy?hmmmm...

It could be he's trying to win favour with most of the class. But you ought to take up the teacher's challenge and see if it is true and turn on him using philosophic arguments. That might really screw him up and could seriously embarrass him infront of class.

Reply 21

glaucon

8

Heya, I would say yes as I am and I'm doing a philosophy degree. However, and take note, I've never found a proof for God that I think works: religious arguments (whether they seem to or not) don't work, mostly because they start from the assumption that God exists. On the other hand there aren't any arguments against God's existence that work really either.

So you can be religious if your happy to accept God's existence on faith/experience, but you can't prove it. Hence, in analytical philosophy God is left on the sideline as an explanation for things because you can't prove he exists. If you want to argue about what God's relation to the world is etc then you look at Theology.

In RS A-level you will probably study the arguments for the existence of God, but I'll warn you that the general consensus is none of the arguments either way work. If you're good at arguing try to prove it but... well, good luck.

Did that make sense?

Reply 22

brown

4

Of course you can be religious and do Philosophy!

Next you'll be asking whether you can be religious and do Religious Studies. (Most A-level RS specifications include a Philosophy of Religion module).

Reply 23

AIUK

OP

glaucon

Heya, I would say yes as I am and I'm doing a philosophy degree. However, and take note, I've never found a proof for God that I think works: religious arguments (whether they seem to or not) don't work, mostly because they start from the assumption that God exists. On the other hand there aren't any arguments against God's existence that work really either.

So you can be religious if your happy to accept God's existence on faith/experience, but you can't prove it. Hence, in analytical philosophy God is left on the sideline as an explanation for things because you can't prove he exists. If you want to argue about what God's relation to the world is etc then you look at Theology.

In RS A-level you will probably study the arguments for the existence of God, but I'll warn you that the general consensus is none of the arguments either way work. If you're good at arguing try to prove it but... well, good luck.

Did that make sense?

yes i never found proof in god actually appealing as such but my religious mate really liked the design argument. but like i say im athiest and open to anything so anyone can throw their views my way :wink:

just happy to learn.xxx

Reply 24

MeAndBubbles

12

oh, i understood you were a theist who was upset with your philosopher teacher's attitude about God, lol

Reply 25

=nuke=

11

I really can't see why a religious person would avoid the subject. If they are convinced that their God exists then generally no amount of debate will be able to change their views because it's a matter of faith.

I happen to be an atheist but I think philosophy's one of the most important subjects I've ever taken.

Reply 26

zzzzzoe

11

i disagree with people who say its impossible to be religious and study philosophy and religion! just look at all the university lecturers who are theists...
your own personal beliefs have nothing to do with it. well, thats my opinion, i think theres probably just a stereotype of religious people being dogmatic or something!

Reply 27

sarcazo

Philosophy can be used to support as well as to attack religion. Some people become religious by studying philosophy.

Reply 28

bohemian

Yeah you can. I'm Jewish and the only thing that irritates me about studying Philosophy is being taught it by a really hardcore Christian teacher who twists it to suit his beliefs.

Anyone who is intelligent would surely be willing to put their religion to the test in favour of incresing their knowledge? If it turns out you don't believe in G-d at the end of it, then fine, what have you lost if it was never true anyway? The only people with anything to loose are those who believe because they find it comforting - which is what many anti-religious people suggest anyway.

Reply 29

AIUK

OP

well_tempered

oh, i understood you were a theist who was upset with your philosopher teacher's attitude about God, lol

Lol im way too bad and scientific to ever really believe in religion, how can we know the truth when we're so insignificant compared to the universe as a whole? well im going off on a tangent lol... but who knows, maybe one day I'll be a devout Christian lol, doubt it though, long as you try to be a good person (which I'm not) lol you're all good!

xxx

Reply 30

MeAndBubbles

12

You're scientific, ok,

there are many constant in the universe, which is fractionally different we, ie. life would not be here,

for example, if the Cosmological Constant was out part 1 part in a trillion trillion, no conscious beings.

seems the Universe was designed, and truthfully I was a theist anyhow, meaning i do the occasionally theistic disillusioned wishfully thinking of speaking to God. Sorry it's out now! Understand I refer to God, I don't think I am God, hehe

Reply 31

bex_26797

14

Philosophy is deepset in religion, and throughout the early church many ascribed to philosophical beliefs,

In Alexandria, there was the cathecial (sp) Christian school which strived for knowledge and their proponents eg Origen and Clement of Alexandria produced literature in accordance with their philosophical comprehension of Christianity. Philosophy and Christian are linked!

Reply 32

jomo

1

Sara x

Seriously?.....lol my course as the teacher says ' we learn there isn't really a god' .... I think it kinda kills it, u have to be open minded i guess...i told my absoloutist hindu mate he really wouldnt like it..
i'm an athiest/agnostic myself.. so im open to anything really, and can judge what convinces me most. You learn, in my case, u don't have to be religious at all...instead just have your life's own philosophy :smile:

Like many other people who have posted first of all, I think it was really wrong of your teacher to tell you that! The one thing that philosophy does teach us is that there is no definite right or wrong answer. (As Socrates says in one of my favourite philosophical quotes, "I am the smartest man alive for I know this: I know nothing"). To make that kind of judgement and preach it as if it's fact is very unprofessional.

One of the main aspects that define religion is speculation - being able to study and discuss religious doctrine/attitudes. As for philosophy, most of the issues that are raised are things that frequently cross over with religious ideas. Personally, I think the subjects are strengthened by discussing the issues together. I used to be a devout atheist but after 2 years of philosophy and religious studies at A-level, i've not become religious but i've certainly questioned my certainty that there is no God.

Reply 33

ibecky

Your teacher sounds exactly like mine.

To be honest, when I first started the course I had started to become more doubtful about the Christian religion I had been brought up with - but studying Philosophy actually, in a way strengthened my faith. I figure it could go either way, but like someone said before, your faith would have to be pretty weak in the first place.

Reply 34

Oddjob39A

15

Sara x

Seriously?.....lol my course as the teacher says ' we learn there isn't really a god' .... I think it kinda kills it, u have to be open minded i guess...i told my absoloutist hindu mate he really wouldnt like it..
i'm an athiest/agnostic myself.. so im open to anything really, and can judge what convinces me most. You learn, in my case, u don't have to be religious at all...instead just have your life's own philosophy :smile:

xxx

Theres a selection of essays by Russell titled 'unpopular essays' I refer you to the essay included in the selection called 'Philosophy and Ulterior motives'

Makes for interesting reading and highlights a lot of fallacies including Anselm, Descartes etc construction of the ontological argument for God.

'There exists a thing that which nothing greater can be thought' only works if you WANT it to work :cool:

If you don't want it to work, it won't because all interpretations of the argument contain a hidden premise;

YOU BELIEVE IN THE NECCESSARY EXISTENCE OF; a thing that which nothing greater can be thought.

Reply 35

Oddjob39A

15

FoeGeddaBowDeet

Philosophy in no way indicates the absence of a god.

Neither can it prove its existence.

The whole point is NOTHING can prove its existence, therefore God is unscientific irrational belief and nonsensical. Untill anyone can provide any empirical evidence to consolidate anyone's degree of belief in a deity it makes absolutley no sense and shouldn't be given any level of respect untill such claims are substantiated.

Reply 36

MGT_90

10

Oddjob39A

Neither can it prove its existence.

The whole point is NOTHING can prove its existence, therefore God is unscientific irrational belief and nonsensical. Untill anyone can provide any empirical evidence to consolidate anyone's degree of belief in a deity it makes absolutley no sense and shouldn't be given any level of respect untill such claims are substantiated.

Nor can anything disprove God's existence.

I can't see why you would think there's a complete absence of empirical evidence. The teleological argument operates on a posteriori judgements on empirical matters. Whether or not it can be criticised doesn't change the fact it's evidence. The empirical grounding of evolution can be criticised, but that doesn't mean the evidence is entirely invalid.

Reply 37

Oddjob39A

15

MGT_90

Nor can anything disprove God's existence.

I can't see why you would think there's a complete absence of empirical evidence. The teleological argument operates on a posteriori judgements on empirical matters. Whether or not it can be criticised doesn't change the fact it's evidence. The empirical grounding of evolution can be criticised, but that doesn't mean the evidence is entirely invalid.

Nor can anything.prove.the.existence.of.god.

Please NEVER try to argue that the teleological argument operates on any sort of empirical evidence. Religious fanatics pick and choose what fits their argument, this is based on the assumption that an element of chance cannot be responsible for the creation of 'beauty' in the natural world; OF COURSE IT CAN. This is the only world you have ever known and will ever know. Why does anything HAVE to have a cause? Because you say it does? Ok yes, thats a valid inference.....

I don't even want to argue on this point any further; the minute I try and have a rational discussion about God I have already lost, if you believe in God fine, keep it to yourself, don't try and impose it on others, don't try and use it to impose a way of life on people who don't agree and PLEASE don't try and use it to distort empirical scientific judgements to fit your own views.

George H. Smith; Atheism - The Case Against God.

Consider the idea that nature itself is the product of design. How could this be demonstrated? Nature, as we have seen, provides the basis of comparison by which we distinguish between designed objects and natural objects. We are able to infer the presence of design only to the extent that the characteristics of an object differ from natural characteristics. Therefore, to claim that nature as a whole was designed is to destroy the basis by which we differentiate between artifacts and natural objects. Evidences of design are those characteristics not found in nature, so it is impossible to produce evidence of design within the context of nature itself. Only if we first step beyond nature, and establish the existence of a supernatural designer, can we conclude that nature is the result of conscious planning. (p. 268)

EDIT: I cannot disprove God's existence because that is like trying to disprove the fact that you believe you see pink rabbits sitting on your uncle's head.

Reply 38

Calumcalum

14

Personally I think if religious people are to have a faith, it should be a faith that can be tested by questions that Philosophy raises. As many theists have an idea of God that can be contended easily by some questions, I think it is also helpful for them to have an awareness of these questions, so they are not seen as naive. Contemplating these questions will allow them to reshape their religion into one that is bot hthe most logical and spiritually fulfilling to them. I think it's definitely important and necessary for people's faiths to be thought about and challenged :smile:

Reply 39

AIUK

OP

my friends life has like shattered before her but her faith keeps her going, if that was me i would probs be suicidal after the crap shes gone through! but shes strong like that. i could never have faith like that to support me, but i still think crap happens for a reason and i live life to the full and do everything religion says is wrong lool ( will leave that open for interpretation) but hey we live once lets make the most of it, thats why i dont chose to be dictated by authority or rules, except for my own morality. x

can you be religious and do philosophy?hmmmm...

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