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    (Original post by calumc)
    And no rahayden, I'm not gay. :rolleyes:
    You could've fooled me. The amount of people I've seen with your attitude who are just trying to hide their own sexuality... Why else would you care so much about making your views on homosexuality so clear?
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    (Original post by rahaydenuk)
    You could've fooled me. The amount of people I've seen with your attitude who are just trying to hide their own sexuality... Why else would you care so much about making your views on homosexuality so clear?
    No, I'm about as straight as they come I'm afraid.

    Mainly it's the same reason I give my views on other contraversial issues such as abortion (I suppose now you'll think I've had one of those aswell), political correctness (which bugs the hell out of me), or father's rights - I'm sick of people taking the same boring PC knee-jerk reaction and not questioning it, and rejecting anything else or even calling me childish names (bigot, homophobe, ironically even calling me ignorant) for even suggesting otherwise.
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    (Original post by rahaydenuk)
    You could've fooled me. The amount of people I've seen with your attitude who are just trying to hide their own sexuality... Why else would you care so much about making your views on homosexuality so clear?
    And I forgot to mention - it's rather childish that you resort to questioning someone's sexuality simply because they're capable of arguing against you. It's the equivalent of losing an argument with someone in primary school and then storming away in a tantrum yelling "yeah, well i don't care about (subject of argument) anyway! you're just gay and you smell!".
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    (Original post by calumc)
    And I forgot to mention - it's rather childish that you resort to questioning someone's sexuality simply because they're capable of arguing against you. It's the equivalent of losing an argument with someone in primary school and then storming away in a tantrum yelling "yeah, well i don't care about (subject of argument) anyway! you're just gay and you smell!".
    You dont win/lose an argument, you express your opinion and let other people decide what they want to beleive. Merely because someone doesnt have a counter argument it doesnt mean people have accepted your ideas. Often people simply get tiered of arguing in a discussion that simply goeas around in circles and then they stop commenting. This doesnt mean you have necessarily made a good case.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    You dont win/lose an argument, you express your opinion and let other people decide what they want to beleive. Merely because someone doesnt have a counter argument it doesnt mean people have accepted your ideas. Often people simply get tiered of arguing in a discussion that simply goeas around in circles and then they stop commenting. This doesnt mean you have necessarily made a good case.
    Yes, I know, the "losing" reference was as part of another (simplified) analogy. I am approaching the point of tiring of this argument.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Yes, I know, the "losing" reference was as part of another (simplified) analogy. I am approaching the point of tiring of this argument.
    I think we both made our point of view pretty clear. Lets just call it a night shall we ?
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    I think we both made our point of view pretty clear. Lets just call it a night shall we ?
    Yeh, good idea.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    It seems to me like you give the knee-jerk reaction of "Oh, it can't be an illness, it just can't." while providing no alternative suggestion. It is a non-physical abnormality which causes people to be attracted to their own sex. Since attraction is purely mental, that certainly looks like a mental illness in my opinion.
    knee jerk reaction? doubtful considering ive actually researched and read some of the major studies in the subject..which im doubting you have.
    unless knee jerk reaction actually means an informed opinion, in which case your definition of my argument is correct. :rolleyes:

    (Original post by calumc)
    Were you the one that invented some far-fetched definition of a "major impairment of primary brain functionality" or something along those lines (therefore excluding depression, anorexia, obsessive/compulsive disorders etc, which are all clearly mental illnesses) or was that someone else?
    that was someone else. but its funny how you reject this definition as "invented" and "far fetched" and thus dismiss it immediately, and yet in the next paragraph you say that if you search for a definition on google you will find a wide range of definitions..did you not realise that this invented definition also comes from that page? and yet even though you outright reject this, you then pick, at random two definitions which seem to support your argument.

    furthermore you then argue that there is no technical definition for mental illness or mental disorder...although i think you need to read the enxt bit of that definition to truly understand its implications as you have taken it out of context.

    (Original post by calumc)
    However, the first and second definitions fit the general perception rather well ....."A sickness of the brain", which I'm sure most people would agree on.
    erm that doesnt make sense...so your argument is, homosexuality is a mental illness, look at this definition which substantiates my claim, its fits it rather well, mental illness is "A sickness of the brain". i think you have missed out a huge chunk of argument there! never mind, maybe next time. all you have done there is link three statements together.

    (Original post by calumc)
    "A disease of the brain that causes unusual thoughts and emotions", and Being attracted to your own sex counts as "unusual thoughts and emotions" as much as being sexually attracted to sheep, buildings, or even inanimate objects.
    i can see why you misunderstand the argument so much. if you read the definition carefully, it states a mental illness is a DISEASE that CAUSES unusual thoughts and emotions". as homosexuality is not a disease as it has no pathological characteristics (a pretty crucial, and necessary criteria for the definition of a disease) you cannot claim that the "unusual thoughts" of being attracted to the same sex counts as a mental illness. if you did, then you would have to classify every unusual thought as a mental illness which is absurd and ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Masonne)
    i can see why you misunderstand the argument so much. if you read the definition carefully, it states a mental illness is a DISEASE that CAUSES unusual thoughts and emotions". as homosexuality is not a disease as it has no pathological characteristics (a pretty crucial, and necessary criteria for the definition of a disease)
    Most of your post simply wasn't worth replying to, however, this part stuck out.

    Mental illnesses and their "cause" are a chicken/egg scenario. Take depression for example. Does somebody become "ill" with this "disease" (as you say), and then become depressed? Or does somebody simply become depressed, and we then label their depression as an "illness"?

    Personally I favour the latter explanation - mental illnesses are simply labels for unusual thoughts/behaviour. The symptoms show the "disease", rather than the disease "causing" the symptoms. Based on this any long-term deviation from "normal" thinking/behavior classifies as a mental illness, and since the "pathological characteristics" can be often be as simple as "unusual" characteristics, this appears to fit with your definition aswell.

    (Original post by Masonne)
    you cannot claim that the "unusual thoughts" of being attracted to the same sex counts as a mental illness. if you did, then you would have to classify every unusual thought as a mental illness
    You don't seem to realise/understand that while a single unusual thought clearly does not compromise a mental illness, as soon as it becomes long-term it can. If you feel down for 30 seconds you don't have depression, but keep it up for 30 months or even 30 years and you certainly do. Homosexuality or any other "unusual" sexuality is long term, so can be classified as a mental illness.



    Had you read the rest of the thread you'd have seen I'm tiring of the issue. The moderators have completely lost whatever respect they had from me following a rather bizarre interception into an arguement mainly between myself and Jonatan (who unless I'm mistaken is also straight) where a Mr Hayden decided that since I was arguing "against" his side then I must be gay. By the same "why else?" logic he obviously fancies me, otherwise he wouldn't have said anything. I'm now rather scared! (runs away)
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    (Original post by rahaydenuk)
    You could've fooled me. The amount of people I've seen with your attitude who are just trying to hide their own sexuality... Why else would you care so much about making your views on homosexuality so clear?
    And it's also the case that those who are closet gays leap to the defence of those who are openly gay, defending the practice!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    And it's also the case that those who are closet gays leap to the defence of those who are openly gay, defending the practice!
    So I'm gay? :confused: :rolleyes:
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    My post was not in response to any you may have posted. Who are you? :confused:
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    And it's also the case that those who are closet gays leap to the defence of those who are openly gay, defending the practice!
    Certainly doesn't descibe me anyway.

    The other (rather opposite) argument often cited states "homophobe=homosexual", though by the same thought process anyone who's scared of spiders is just afraid people will find out they're secretly spiderman
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Certainly doesn't descibe me anyway.

    The other (rather opposite) argument often cited states "homophobe=homosexual", though by the same thought process anyone who's scared of spiders is just afraid people will find out they're secretly spiderman
    You really do have a unique ability to p*ss me off with your 19th century, bigotted opinions, and judging by your rep. status, I'm not the only one.
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    (Original post by musicman)
    You really do have a unique ability to p*ss me off with your 19th century, bigotted opinions, and judging by your rep. status, I'm not the only one.
    what did he say that was so offensive? or at the least, any more abusive than this?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    what did he say that was so offensive? or at the least, any more abusive than this?
    Try his use of the term "******" for starters. Don't get into this argument with me - I have significant evidence to support calumc's bigotry.
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    Homosexuality isn't abnormal. It's statistically infrequent but it doesn't present a danger to oneself or ones surroundings. By being gay you're not making anyone else suffer. So why do all you people who are arguing for it being a disease and stuff even care? Why can't you just ignore it?
    Or is it an obsession that you have as an outlet from your own repressed homosexuality? Hmmm...? Is it?
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    (Original post by musicman)
    Try his use of the term "******" for starters. Don't get into this argument with me - I have significant evidence to support calumc's bigotry.
    i didnt see it on this thread. as for the rest of his posting, he is quite sincere in his delivery. your judgement of him doesnt seem to be deserved or valuable based on the posts here.
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    (Original post by musicman)
    You really do have a unique ability to p*ss me off with your 19th century, bigotted opinions, and judging by your rep. status, I'm not the only one.


    19th century bigoted opinions! Good Lord, that's certainly a new one!

    What few rep comments I get tend to vary wildly between extremes (often even on the same post) but given that I only really reply to contraversial issues I'm not surprised - the majority of people simply stick to their own opinion. Most of the negative ones have little to no relevant reason or counter-argument atall - I even got one for saying I didn't like Apple macs. Not everyone agrees with you however:
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i didnt see it on this thread. as for the rest of his posting, he is quite sincere in his delivery. your judgement of him doesnt seem to be deserved or valuable based on the posts here.
    Wrong.
 
 
 
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