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Public school or state school? Watch

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    Which is better?
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    That is like asking jam or marmalade, which is better? On which measure are you going to measure "better"?
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    I don't think people are paying fees for the same standard of service they could get for free...
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      (Original post by ByEeek)
      That is like asking jam or marmalade, which is better? On which measure are you going to measure "better"?
      No; its like asking "Mercedes or Fiat, which is better?" Obviously you want the Mercedes, but not everyone can afford it.
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      (Original post by Mathemagicien)
      No; its like asking "Mercedes or Fiat, which is better?" Obviously you want the Mercedes, but not everyone can afford it.
      Right - so what about the state schools that outperform private schools, or the private schools that are rated good, requiring improvement or even inadequate?

      Sure, if you pay your money you get what you pay for, but it isn't as simple as private = good, public = bad.

      If private education is so good, why did Etonian, Prince William only achieve a 2.1 at St Andrews University? I got that and I went to state school. Surely the tax payer would have saved a fortune by sending him to the local Westminster comprehensive?
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        (Original post by ByEeek)
        If private education is so good, why did Etonian, Prince William only achieve a 2.2 at St Andrews University? I got that and I went to state school. Surely the tax payer would have saved a fortune by sending him to the local Westminster comprehensive?
        He only got a 2.2 because he is a retard. Private schools mainly help up until you get to Uni, but everyone gets the same education when they are at the same Uni, so their performance more mirrors their abilities.

        Suppose more private schoolers at Cambridge got a 3rd than state schoolers. Then it looks like bad applicants are more likely to be successful in their application if they come from private schools; i.e. private schools make bad candidates look better than they'd look if they were from a state school.
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        (Original post by Mathemagicien)
        Suppose more private schoolers at Cambridge got a 3rd than state schoolers. Then it looks like bad applicants are more likely to be successful in their application if they come from private schools; i.e. private schools make bad candidates look better than they'd look if they were from a state school.
        Personally I don't think there is much difference in terms of educational delivery. Where private schools excel is in the attitudes they instill into their pupils. There is a can-do ethos in most private schools. They also have the benefit of allowing their students to tap into the influential network that surrounds such schools.

        I firmly believe that attainment has little to do with success in life. It is who you know, what you know that by and large dictates your financial outcomes in life unless you get lucky.
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        The difference in the "quality" of the education isn't the only thing that parents base their decision on. There are lots of other factors and my list is nowhere near complete:

        Better behaviour in classes
        Smaller class sizes
        Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
        Lack of bullying
        Better facilities
        More sports and other non-curriculum activities
        Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
        Prestige - getting to say at dinner parties, "Oh, my son goes to..."
        Better careers/university advice/assistance

        This is obviously very generalist and will not apply to all private schools vs staties.
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        (Original post by ByEeek)
        Personally I don't think there is much difference in terms of educational delivery. Where private schools excel is in the attitudes they instill into their pupils. There is a can-do ethos in most private schools. They also have the benefit of allowing their students to tap into the influential network that surrounds such schools.

        I firmly believe that attainment has little to do with success in life. It is who you know, what you know that by and large dictates your financial outcomes in life unless you get lucky.
        It depends if you want to distill all education down to a set of exam results.

        The state schools that perform at the very highest level are all selective, usually much much more selective than any public school - they have student bodies pre-selected to do well at GCSE and A-level, and it would frankly be a disgrace if they didn't.

        Some public schools are hot houses in the same way, others are just old-style boarding schools. Some have particular niches like sport or the arts. Some cater for children who would be miserably failed in the state school system. Think Tom Daley.

        Some public schools are almost entirely for children on fee-support. Some are literally just to make sure rich children are in an environment commensurate with their background. Nothing wrong with that.
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        (Original post by Trinculo)

        The state schools that perform at the very highest level are all selective, usually much much more selective than any public school - they have student bodies pre-selected to do well at GCSE and A-level, and it would frankly be a disgrace if they didn't.
        Just you wait until the new Progress 8 scores are published. There are going to be some tails between legs!
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        (Original post by ByEeek)
        Just you wait until the new Progress 8 scores are published. There are going to be some tails between legs!
        Why so?
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        (Original post by Trinculo)
        Why so?
        Up until this year, schools were judged on their attainment of getting students 5 GCSEs A-C with English and Maths. The new progress 8 score double weights English and Maths but also includes several buckets including STEM, MFL and humanities and then two other subjects. Schools are scored on a closed system of -1 to 1 with 0 being the median school.

        Traditionally, schools that did really well piled all their resources into English, Maths and three other subjects. Now they are being judged on 8 subjects. Certainly in the Manchester area, the selective schools that traditionally did very well have bombed on the new Progress 8 score. It is almost like they were gaming the system!
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        (Original post by ByEeek)
        Up until this year, schools were judged on their attainment of getting students 5 GCSEs A-C with English and Maths. The new progress 8 score double weights English and Maths but also includes several buckets including STEM, MFL and humanities and then two other subjects. Schools are scored on a closed system of -1 to 1 with 0 being the median school.

        Traditionally, schools that did really well piled all their resources into English, Maths and three other subjects. Now they are being judged on 8 subjects. Certainly in the Manchester area, the selective schools that traditionally did very well have bombed on the new Progress 8 score. It is almost like they were gaming the system!
        It won't make the slightest bit of difference at the top. The hothouse schools aren't interested in 5As, they want 10, 11 or 12, especially in academic subjects. The selective schools weren't interested in A-C ever.
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        (Original post by Trinculo)
        It won't make the slightest bit of difference at the top. The hothouse schools aren't interested in 5As, they want 10, 11 or 12, especially in academic subjects. The selective schools weren't interested in A-C ever.
        Say that to Altringham Girls Grammar school and Sale Grammar school! Well known as being the best schools in the North West with 100% of students getting A-C in English and Maths. Completely flunked their Progress 8 scores though.
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        (Original post by Pigster)
        The difference in the "quality" of the education isn't the only thing that parents base their decision on. There are lots of other factors and my list is nowhere near complete:
        Better behaviour in classes
        Smaller class sizes
        Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
        Lack of bullying
        Better facilities
        More sports and other non-curriculum activities
        Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
        Prestige - getting to say at dinner parties, "Oh, my son goes to..."
        Better careers/university advice/assistance
        This is obviously very generalist and will not apply to all private schools vs staties.
        Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
        Please tell me how it is useful in any shape or form in the 21st century, and why it is a disadvantage that state schools don't offer it (Apart from feeding into Oxbridge)

        Better careers/university advice/assistance
        I don't know about 6th forms which are attached to high schools, but I went to a separate 6th form which had an excellent careers advice service, everything from work experience, personal statements, etc. However the difference is that it is up to you to use it, if you don't you miss out.

        Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
        Not always a good thing, as soon as they enter the real world/university some get a complete shock, unless they enter Oxford followed by the House of commons to avoid the riff raff as much as possible. Whereas in state school you're surrounded by all sorts of people, who may not all be perfect but it helps if you want to work in the real world.

        More sports and other non-curriculum activities
        I found that some private school people spent too much time doing these, and ended up doing less well academically, which I thought was the whole point going there.

        Apart from that, the rest of your points are probably correct And I appreciate you were reflecting what their parents would base their decision on, nonetheless just my 2 pence.
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        (Original post by bj1)
        Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
        Please tell me how it is useful in any shape or form in the 21st century, and why it is a disadvantage that state schools don't offer it (Apart from feeding into Oxbridge)
        Some people want to study Classics at university. I don't know how Latin's relevant to Oxbridge, though,
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          (Original post by ByEeek)
          Say that to Altringham Girls Grammar school and Sale Grammar school! Well known as being the best schools in the North West with 100% of students getting A-C in English and Maths. Completely flunked their Progress 8 scores though.
          Yes, if there are grammar schools within a reasonable distance, of course you should go to them.

          But private schools are better for rich dumb kids. And I might be mistaken, but I believe there are areas of the UK far away from any grammar school.
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          (Original post by bj1)
          Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
          Please tell me how it is useful in any shape or form in the 21st century, and why it is a disadvantage that state schools don't offer it (Apart from feeding into Oxbridge)
          Since I teach Latin at the private school I work at, I'd say it is rather useful. A huge chunk of the English language is based on Latin, and understanding of Latin really helps with English, especially with grammar etc.

          It is probably as useful as most other subjects we teach. School isn't really (IMO) about teaching students subject knowledge (apart from a few subjects), but about teaching the ability to learn and the associated skills. I am mostly a chemistry teacher and chemistry is required for just about every medical course, but just about all of it can be forgotten once you get on the course (I understand). Why is chemistry required? Mostly as a gateway, as it is hard and requires application of knowledge and use of mathematics to solve problems, which I expect is rather handy for medicine. The chemistry facts themselves aren't important to most medics.

          My point, though, as you acknowledge at the end is that it can sway parental choice. We have a handful of students at our college (and therefore not at one of our competitors) who are only at the college because we offer Latin.

          Better careers/university advice/assistance
          I don't know about 6th forms which are attached to high schools, but I went to a separate 6th form which had an excellent careers advice service, everything from work experience, personal statements, etc. However the difference is that it is up to you to use it, if you don't you miss out.
          The school I taught as before the one I'm at now, had fairly rubbish advice. The college I'm at now is excellent. That's all I have to compare. But my college is truly excellent. There are a team of people who's sole job centre around UCAS applications.

          Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
          Not always a good thing, as soon as they enter the real world/university some get a complete shock, unless they enter Oxford followed by the House of commons to avoid the riff raff as much as possible. Whereas in state school you're surrounded by all sorts of people, who may not all be perfect but it helps if you want to work in the real world.
          Largely agree, but to some parents this might be important. We have a number of current/ex world leaders kids at our college. I don't think a state school would accept them, what with the security procedures we have to have in place.

          Some of our students will never really enter the 'real world'; we have quite a few aspy kids who will get a little cupboard sized office at some university and allowed to do maths for the rest of their lives: think Sheldon but for real. Drop those kids in a normal state school and they'd get killed.

          More sports and other non-curriculum activities
          I found that some private school people spent too much time doing these, and ended up doing less well academically, which I thought was the whole point going there.
          The point of my post was that academia isn't "the whole point". If a parent (and student) want sport at the detriment of academia, perhaps a sporty private school is the way to go for them.
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          (Original post by gcsehelp718)
          Which is better?
          Obvious a public school....
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          (Original post by ByEeek)
          Say that to Altringham Girls Grammar school and Sale Grammar school! Well known as being the best schools in the North West with 100% of students getting A-C in English and Maths. Completely flunked their Progress 8 scores though.
          Those are good state schools, not top state schools.

          Two of the state schools near my home are top schools. We're talking about 100% A*-C on every subject, not just five. I believe one of the schools was 99.9% A*-B, they had only 3 Cs in the whole year in any subject. I think the other one had a bad year last year with one D.

          And the reason this happens is because they're outrageously selective. You won't get in without aceing the 11+, and I mean aceing it - and then you won't take any exam they think you'll not get an A in.
         
         
         
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