Turn on thread page Beta

Public school or state school? watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Which is better?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    That is like asking jam or marmalade, which is better? On which measure are you going to measure "better"?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I don't think people are paying fees for the same standard of service they could get for free...
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    No; its like asking "Mercedes or Fiat, which is better?" Obviously you want the Mercedes, but not everyone can afford it.
    Right - so what about the state schools that outperform private schools, or the private schools that are rated good, requiring improvement or even inadequate?

    Sure, if you pay your money you get what you pay for, but it isn't as simple as private = good, public = bad.

    If private education is so good, why did Etonian, Prince William only achieve a 2.1 at St Andrews University? I got that and I went to state school. Surely the tax payer would have saved a fortune by sending him to the local Westminster comprehensive?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Suppose more private schoolers at Cambridge got a 3rd than state schoolers. Then it looks like bad applicants are more likely to be successful in their application if they come from private schools; i.e. private schools make bad candidates look better than they'd look if they were from a state school.
    Personally I don't think there is much difference in terms of educational delivery. Where private schools excel is in the attitudes they instill into their pupils. There is a can-do ethos in most private schools. They also have the benefit of allowing their students to tap into the influential network that surrounds such schools.

    I firmly believe that attainment has little to do with success in life. It is who you know, what you know that by and large dictates your financial outcomes in life unless you get lucky.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    The difference in the "quality" of the education isn't the only thing that parents base their decision on. There are lots of other factors and my list is nowhere near complete:

    Better behaviour in classes
    Smaller class sizes
    Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
    Lack of bullying
    Better facilities
    More sports and other non-curriculum activities
    Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
    Prestige - getting to say at dinner parties, "Oh, my son goes to..."
    Better careers/university advice/assistance

    This is obviously very generalist and will not apply to all private schools vs staties.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Personally I don't think there is much difference in terms of educational delivery. Where private schools excel is in the attitudes they instill into their pupils. There is a can-do ethos in most private schools. They also have the benefit of allowing their students to tap into the influential network that surrounds such schools.

    I firmly believe that attainment has little to do with success in life. It is who you know, what you know that by and large dictates your financial outcomes in life unless you get lucky.
    It depends if you want to distill all education down to a set of exam results.

    The state schools that perform at the very highest level are all selective, usually much much more selective than any public school - they have student bodies pre-selected to do well at GCSE and A-level, and it would frankly be a disgrace if they didn't.

    Some public schools are hot houses in the same way, others are just old-style boarding schools. Some have particular niches like sport or the arts. Some cater for children who would be miserably failed in the state school system. Think Tom Daley.

    Some public schools are almost entirely for children on fee-support. Some are literally just to make sure rich children are in an environment commensurate with their background. Nothing wrong with that.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)

    The state schools that perform at the very highest level are all selective, usually much much more selective than any public school - they have student bodies pre-selected to do well at GCSE and A-level, and it would frankly be a disgrace if they didn't.
    Just you wait until the new Progress 8 scores are published. There are going to be some tails between legs!
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Just you wait until the new Progress 8 scores are published. There are going to be some tails between legs!
    Why so?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Why so?
    Up until this year, schools were judged on their attainment of getting students 5 GCSEs A-C with English and Maths. The new progress 8 score double weights English and Maths but also includes several buckets including STEM, MFL and humanities and then two other subjects. Schools are scored on a closed system of -1 to 1 with 0 being the median school.

    Traditionally, schools that did really well piled all their resources into English, Maths and three other subjects. Now they are being judged on 8 subjects. Certainly in the Manchester area, the selective schools that traditionally did very well have bombed on the new Progress 8 score. It is almost like they were gaming the system!
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Up until this year, schools were judged on their attainment of getting students 5 GCSEs A-C with English and Maths. The new progress 8 score double weights English and Maths but also includes several buckets including STEM, MFL and humanities and then two other subjects. Schools are scored on a closed system of -1 to 1 with 0 being the median school.

    Traditionally, schools that did really well piled all their resources into English, Maths and three other subjects. Now they are being judged on 8 subjects. Certainly in the Manchester area, the selective schools that traditionally did very well have bombed on the new Progress 8 score. It is almost like they were gaming the system!
    It won't make the slightest bit of difference at the top. The hothouse schools aren't interested in 5As, they want 10, 11 or 12, especially in academic subjects. The selective schools weren't interested in A-C ever.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    It won't make the slightest bit of difference at the top. The hothouse schools aren't interested in 5As, they want 10, 11 or 12, especially in academic subjects. The selective schools weren't interested in A-C ever.
    Say that to Altringham Girls Grammar school and Sale Grammar school! Well known as being the best schools in the North West with 100% of students getting A-C in English and Maths. Completely flunked their Progress 8 scores though.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pigster)
    The difference in the "quality" of the education isn't the only thing that parents base their decision on. There are lots of other factors and my list is nowhere near complete:
    Better behaviour in classes
    Smaller class sizes
    Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
    Lack of bullying
    Better facilities
    More sports and other non-curriculum activities
    Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
    Prestige - getting to say at dinner parties, "Oh, my son goes to..."
    Better careers/university advice/assistance
    This is obviously very generalist and will not apply to all private schools vs staties.
    Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
    Please tell me how it is useful in any shape or form in the 21st century, and why it is a disadvantage that state schools don't offer it (Apart from feeding into Oxbridge)

    Better careers/university advice/assistance
    I don't know about 6th forms which are attached to high schools, but I went to a separate 6th form which had an excellent careers advice service, everything from work experience, personal statements, etc. However the difference is that it is up to you to use it, if you don't you miss out.

    Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
    Not always a good thing, as soon as they enter the real world/university some get a complete shock, unless they enter Oxford followed by the House of commons to avoid the riff raff as much as possible. Whereas in state school you're surrounded by all sorts of people, who may not all be perfect but it helps if you want to work in the real world.

    More sports and other non-curriculum activities
    I found that some private school people spent too much time doing these, and ended up doing less well academically, which I thought was the whole point going there.

    Apart from that, the rest of your points are probably correct And I appreciate you were reflecting what their parents would base their decision on, nonetheless just my 2 pence.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bj1)
    Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
    Please tell me how it is useful in any shape or form in the 21st century, and why it is a disadvantage that state schools don't offer it (Apart from feeding into Oxbridge)
    Some people want to study Classics at university. I don't know how Latin's relevant to Oxbridge, though,
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bj1)
    Subject availability - how many state schools offer Latin?
    Please tell me how it is useful in any shape or form in the 21st century, and why it is a disadvantage that state schools don't offer it (Apart from feeding into Oxbridge)
    Since I teach Latin at the private school I work at, I'd say it is rather useful. A huge chunk of the English language is based on Latin, and understanding of Latin really helps with English, especially with grammar etc.

    It is probably as useful as most other subjects we teach. School isn't really (IMO) about teaching students subject knowledge (apart from a few subjects), but about teaching the ability to learn and the associated skills. I am mostly a chemistry teacher and chemistry is required for just about every medical course, but just about all of it can be forgotten once you get on the course (I understand). Why is chemistry required? Mostly as a gateway, as it is hard and requires application of knowledge and use of mathematics to solve problems, which I expect is rather handy for medicine. The chemistry facts themselves aren't important to most medics.

    My point, though, as you acknowledge at the end is that it can sway parental choice. We have a handful of students at our college (and therefore not at one of our competitors) who are only at the college because we offer Latin.

    Better careers/university advice/assistance
    I don't know about 6th forms which are attached to high schools, but I went to a separate 6th form which had an excellent careers advice service, everything from work experience, personal statements, etc. However the difference is that it is up to you to use it, if you don't you miss out.
    The school I taught as before the one I'm at now, had fairly rubbish advice. The college I'm at now is excellent. That's all I have to compare. But my college is truly excellent. There are a team of people who's sole job centre around UCAS applications.

    Mixing with 'people like us' - keeping away from the 'riff raff'
    Not always a good thing, as soon as they enter the real world/university some get a complete shock, unless they enter Oxford followed by the House of commons to avoid the riff raff as much as possible. Whereas in state school you're surrounded by all sorts of people, who may not all be perfect but it helps if you want to work in the real world.
    Largely agree, but to some parents this might be important. We have a number of current/ex world leaders kids at our college. I don't think a state school would accept them, what with the security procedures we have to have in place.

    Some of our students will never really enter the 'real world'; we have quite a few aspy kids who will get a little cupboard sized office at some university and allowed to do maths for the rest of their lives: think Sheldon but for real. Drop those kids in a normal state school and they'd get killed.

    More sports and other non-curriculum activities
    I found that some private school people spent too much time doing these, and ended up doing less well academically, which I thought was the whole point going there.
    The point of my post was that academia isn't "the whole point". If a parent (and student) want sport at the detriment of academia, perhaps a sporty private school is the way to go for them.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gcsehelp718)
    Which is better?
    Obvious a public school....
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Say that to Altringham Girls Grammar school and Sale Grammar school! Well known as being the best schools in the North West with 100% of students getting A-C in English and Maths. Completely flunked their Progress 8 scores though.
    Those are good state schools, not top state schools.

    Two of the state schools near my home are top schools. We're talking about 100% A*-C on every subject, not just five. I believe one of the schools was 99.9% A*-B, they had only 3 Cs in the whole year in any subject. I think the other one had a bad year last year with one D.

    And the reason this happens is because they're outrageously selective. You won't get in without aceing the 11+, and I mean aceing it - and then you won't take any exam they think you'll not get an A in.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    As the child of parents who could afford to send me to a private school, and who attended them themselves, but who ultimately chose to send their children to state school I feel I have a unique insight into the system.

    Although I acknowledge there are huge faults in the state system (I'm currently studying at a non selective mediocre state school) I am thankful that my parents chose that system of education. You don't have the sheltered existence that those who enter the public system do. I have friends from across the socio economic scale, I understand the problems faced by all people. Or at least can witness them. The lack of entitlement of state school children, although sometimes a hindrance when applying to Oxbridge, means that they understand that to do well you must work hard, be self motivated as prepared to work independently of all others.

    People argued to my parents, friends and family, that they were making a huge educational mistake in sending me to a state school. One said as much as I would be a failure. At GCSE I gained what is for any school, considered a very strong set of results and I am set to go to oxford to study the subject I adore. That is through hard work. My dad has always said to me that hard work has the same results anywhere. You might have to work harder in some places than others but you shouldn't be held back by anything. I think my parents have proved to people that it isn't the only option or even the best one necessarily. I am somebody who thrives on challenges and I am desperate to prove people wrong so here I think the real question is are the better for you?

    People react very different to varied environments so although I will always defend the system I enetered and suceeded in it isn't to say that everyone will flourish in the same system, or that I would have done as well I'm other scenarios.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mills_B)
    As the child of parents who could afford to send me to a private school, and who attended them themselves, but who ultimately chose to send their children to state school I feel I have a unique insight into the system.

    Although I acknowledge there are huge faults in the state system (I'm currently studying at a non selective mediocre state school) I am thankful that my parents chose that system of education. You don't have the sheltered existence that those who enter the public system do. I have friends from across the socio economic scale, I understand the problems faced by all people. Or at least can witness them. The lack of entitlement of state school children, although sometimes a hindrance when applying to Oxbridge, means that they understand that to do well you must work hard, be self motivated as prepared to work independently of all others.

    People argued to my parents, friends and family, that they were making a huge educational mistake in sending me to a state school. One said as much as I would be a failure. At GCSE I gained what is for any school, considered a very strong set of results and I am set to go to oxford to study the subject I adore. That is through hard work. My dad has always said to me that hard work has the same results anywhere. You might have to work harder in some places than others but you shouldn't be held back by anything. I think my parents have proved to people that it isn't the only option or even the best one necessarily. I am somebody who thrives on challenges and I am desperate to prove people wrong so here I think the real question is are the better for you?

    People react very different to varied environments so although I will always defend the system I enetered and suceeded in it isn't to say that everyone will flourish in the same system, or that I would have done as well I'm other scenarios.
    I went to a state and by the time I was in year 10 there were three girls pregnant, a dozen drop outs and Nigel Farage came and spoke next door! I wish I went to a good school, I don't care whether it's state or not!
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RiceOnLife)
    I went to a state and by the time I was in year 10 there were three girls pregnant, a dozen drop outs and Nigel Farage came and spoke next door! I wish I went to a good school, I don't care whether it's state or not!
    Do we go to th same school? I think it's OMG where Jonathan djanogly got booed?
 
 
 
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources
Uni match

Applying to uni?

Our tool will help you find the perfect course

Articles:

Debate and current affairs guidelinesDebate and current affairs wiki

Quick link:

Educational debate unanswered threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.