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    (Original post by Connor27)
    "Liberal Socialist" is an oxymoron, you're literally saying you're an individualist collectivist, that is nonsense.

    You are either a social democrat or do not understand the meaning of liberalism.
    I'm sorry my seeping sarcasm wasn't seeping enough.

    But, you do know that liberal socialism is a thing, right?
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    (Original post by elen90)
    I'm sorry my seeping sarcasm wasn't seeping enough.

    But, you do know that liberal socialism is a thing, right?
    It's a very sloppy way of describing social democracy, the word "socialist" is not like words like "feminist" that can be Liberal or Radical. It has a very specific definition:

    "(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism."

    If you are a liberal, then you support capitalism and don't want to overthrow it. Just use the phrase Social Democrat, it's the correct terminology.

    Also, judging by your avatar, you can't be a remainer and describe yourself as socialist, socialists would never support free trade and neoliberalism on that scale.
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    (Original post by jape)
    As I already explained, what he spoke about wasn't sexual assault.
    So if "just start kissing" you without waiting for an invite and grab your crotch without asking, it's not sexual assault?

    Good to know.
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    lol

    altright is just edgy teenagers why even bother asking for his opinion
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    It's a very sloppy way of describing social democracy, the word "socialist" is not like words like "feminist" that can be Liberal or Radical. It has a very specific definition:

    "(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism."

    If you are a liberal, then you support capitalism and don't want to overthrow it. Just use the phrase Social Democrat, it's the correct terminology.

    Also, judging by your avatar, you can't be a remainer and describe yourself as socialist, socialists would never support free trade and neoliberalism on that scale.
    Liberal socialism is very much a political philosophy, and a variant of social democracy.

    Socialism doesn't have a specific definition. Yours is pertinent to Marxism, but a quick Google search reveals multiple definitions, and we could fall further down that rabbit hole. Given that socialism is a political term, and political terms are social and/or mental constructs, it makes sense that there'd be different interpretations of its meaning - one not necessarily any more or less valid than the other.

    Meanings of liberalism can range from supporting capitalism, to simply supporting a society containing a broad spectrum of beliefs and views. Again, you can't really lay down the parameters for what is and isn't encompassed within an ideology. At least not today.

    I supported remain because the alternative was far, far worse. I'm pragmatic (and now you're going to tell me that pragmatic socialists don't exist, right?).
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    - I support Donald Trump 100%
    - I support Brexit
    -I support UKIP but also have respect for the Conservatives
    - I support a ban on unskilled immigration and repatriation of recent unskilled immigrants
    -I support a ban on people from majority-Muslim nations entering the UK.
    -I support fracking and shale oil extraction
    - I oppose BLM and ISIS
    How does all this make you alt-right and not just the average right wing 50 year old northern bricklayer?
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    - I support Donald Trump 100%
    - I support Brexit
    -I support UKIP but also have respect for the Conservatives
    - I support a ban on unskilled immigration and repatriation of recent unskilled immigrants
    -I support a ban on people from majority-Muslim nations entering the UK.
    -I support fracking and shale oil extraction
    - I oppose BLM and ISIS
    Do you also support Russia?
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    It's a very sloppy way of describing social democracy, the word "socialist" is not like words like "feminist" that can be Liberal or Radical. It has a very specific definition:

    "(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism."

    If you are a liberal, then you support capitalism and don't want to overthrow it. Just use the phrase Social Democrat, it's the correct terminology.

    Also, judging by your avatar, you can't be a remainer and describe yourself as socialist, socialists would never support free trade and neoliberalism on that scale.
    While there may be official definitions of these things the simple approach i take is that social democrats support the market economy but believe in co-operatives as the model of ownership. Socialists believe in annexation of industry by government and a command economy. Communists believe in the abolition of property rights and near 100% taxation if they support keeping money at all (though currency will always exist).

    Corbyn and the Greens for example are right on the border between extreme social democrat and socialism in my book while Cuba pre 2006 was a communist nation. The Soviets tried communism for a while but were socialist for most of their existence.

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union what we've seen is the label of traditional socialism and national socialism change to encompass a lot of mild social democrats. This is basically part of a marketing exercise to decry genocidal dictators as 'not a true socialist'.
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    - I support Donald Trump 100%
    - I support Brexit
    -I support UKIP but also have respect for the Conservatives
    - I support a ban on unskilled immigration and repatriation of recent unskilled immigrants
    -I support a ban on people from majority-Muslim nations entering the UK.
    -I support fracking and shale oil extraction
    - I oppose BLM and ISIS
    What do you think of Jews? Is there a white genocide? Do you believe that race is a valid taxonomic construct? Does race matter?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    How people vote is not necessarily how they generally behave. Especially if there is only a binary choice.
    The only part which is binary is vote vs not vote, the days of uncontested elections, or elections with only two candidates is long gone, I had 7 options in the 2015 election: not voting, 5 candidates, and a spoilt ballot. Arguably I had 14, because then there were a further 6 candidates in my home constituency and of course spoiling the ballot there.
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    (Original post by Mikos)
    I'd argue the left hates Jews more than the right. Even try to bring up Israel and it'll rustle some jim jams.
    There's a huge difference between anti-Semitism and criticising the oppressive, sometimes murderous actions of the Israeli government and military and their persistent contravention of international law.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    There's a huge difference between anti-Semitism and criticising the oppressive, sometimes murderous actions of the Israeli government and military and their persistent contravention of international law.
    You'll find that just like their role model Israel has a tendency not to sign the treaties, so they technically aren't doing anything wrong a lot of the time
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    Who did 9/11?
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    (Original post by Mikos)
    I'd argue the left hates Jews more than the right. Even try to bring up Israel and it'll rustle some jim jams.
    You appear to be under the misguided impression that Israel and Jews are the same thing; and that the majority of lefties who dislike Israel dislike it for a reason that is connected to the fact that the majority of Israelis are Jewish. (And yes, I know there is anti-Semitic racism on the fringes of the left, and that there is work to do to weed it out, but I'm not talking about that - I'm talking about the majority).
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    (Original post by elen90)
    Liberal socialism is very much a political philosophy, and a variant of social democracy.

    Socialism doesn't have a specific definition. Yours is pertinent to Marxism, but a quick Google search reveals multiple definitions, and we could fall further down that rabbit hole. Given that socialism is a political term, and political terms are social and/or mental constructs, it makes sense that there'd be different interpretations of its meaning - one not necessarily any more or less valid than the other.

    Meanings of liberalism can range from supporting capitalism, to simply supporting a society containing a broad spectrum of beliefs and views. Again, you can't really lay down the parameters for what is and isn't encompassed within an ideology. At least not today.

    I supported remain because the alternative was far, far worse. I'm pragmatic (and now you're going to tell me that pragmatic socialists don't exist, right?).
    Socialism is the transitional stage between capitalism and communism, where capitalism's private ownership of the means of productive wealth is replaced by social ownership and control.

    There's a big misconception ITT about socialists, which is really just an umbrella term for social democrats to democratic socialists to Leninists, who are called communists but still attempting to bring about socialism like demsocs.
    Social democrats range from large-scale nationalisation of industries like Clement Attlee to those that are for less government intervention in markets with only the nationalisation of key industries or even very few at all.

    I would dispute the claim that there is liberal socialism, because it is basically right social democracy, which is simply another revision of original Marxist socialism to 'modernise' socialist ideology and make left parties more electable.

    Also, remain/leave was a very divisive issue on the left as well as the right.
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    (Original post by elen90)
    Liberal socialism is very much a political philosophy, and a variant of social democracy.

    Socialism doesn't have a specific definition. Yours is pertinent to Marxism, but a quick Google search reveals multiple definitions, and we could fall further down that rabbit hole. Given that socialism is a political term, and political terms are social and/or mental constructs, it makes sense that there'd be different interpretations of its meaning - one not necessarily any more or less valid than the other.

    Meanings of liberalism can range from supporting capitalism, to simply supporting a society containing a broad spectrum of beliefs and views. Again, you can't really lay down the parameters for what is and isn't encompassed within an ideology. At least not today. it's hard to classify trump either way economically , as he promotes less regulation at the same time as interfering personally with the national economy (not a good thing). Trump however, clearly encourages social bigotry and couldn't be further from a social liberalist.

    I supported remain because the alternative was far, far worse. I'm pragmatic (and now you're going to tell me that pragmatic socialists don't exist, right?).
    You are talking economic liberalism and social liberalism. Two very different concepts that are clearly defined.
    An example; Trump is neither an economic liberalist or an economic protectionist as he shows signs of both (the worst signs of both though - near zero regulation whilst personally interfering with the economy). Trump clearly incites social bigotry and couldn't be further from a social liberalists perspective, which as you put it is the mixing of all cultures/religions etc for a more diverse society.

    Socialism as a general concept refers to the redistribution of wealth by government.
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    First of all (not a question) you're alt-lite not alt-right
    Secondly how often do you get out?
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    - I support Donald Trump 100%
    - I support Brexit
    -I support UKIP but also have respect for the Conservatives
    - I support a ban on unskilled immigration and repatriation of recent unskilled immigrants
    -I support a ban on people from majority-Muslim nations entering the UK.
    -I support fracking and shale oil extraction
    - I oppose BLM and ISIS
    I agree with everything you said bar a ban on muslims (I support more restrictions and careful scrutiny) and I do not support ukip anymore But I am a strong right wing conservative. yet I do not think of mysellf as "alt right", since the Alt right has no set of guidelines what makes you think that you are Alt right and I have a few other questions.

    -Before being alt right even existed what did you call yourself.
    -Opinions on Soft/Hard Brexit
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    I agree that Jewish people have a lot of power and have enjoyed a lot of political and financial success but a lot of it's down to their hard work and I don't see it as a problem. I don't believe Ina Jewish conspiracy but I do believe in a liberal conspiracy. If you look at the mainstream media outlets, they all favour the left on social and economic issues.
    Why do you believe in a liberal MSM conspiracy? What about: the Sun, the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, the Times, the FT, etc? I've read a whole host of right wing thoughts and opinions in those publications regarding social and economic issues. In the US, there are also a number of well-funded conservative media organizations as well. I am honestly curious where the conspiracy comes in?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The only part which is binary is vote vs not vote, the days of uncontested elections, or elections with only two candidates is long gone, I had 7 options in the 2015 election: not voting, 5 candidates, and a spoilt ballot. Arguably I had 14, because then there were a further 6 candidates in my home constituency and of course spoiling the ballot there.
    Both Brexit and more or less US election is binary...
 
 
 
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