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    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    Good job Jamie. What's next for you?

    I can't get my head round the way they do selection in 2017. In my day, you popped in to the AFCO for a wee chat, then a few weeks later dropped into OASC for the whole procedure. Medical and aptitude first - that culled a high percentage. Interview, a few more dropped out. Finally the group and individual problem solving, followed by hangar leadership exercises. Generally you heard the result after about a month. I applied in May, OASC in July, and started OCTU (poor man's IOT) the following January.

    Seems a lot more convoluted these days, but probably saves the public purse a few quid.
    Seconded, Well done Jamie.

    IIRC, it'll now be a interview at the candidates local AFCO, followed by fitness test at the local Nuffield gym, then the Capitia medical, then the remainder of OASC I believe.

    However, the above could also be the route for the RN Aircrewman selection, so apologies if I've not got it correct.


    Ikaruss, it's interesting. I believe the new route of selection must be a recent change (by recent within the last 5 years - however, I stand to be corrected).
    One thing I wanted to ask, nowadays, you can resit CBAT as many times as you wish (unless you're deemed a complete dimwit) - has it always been the case, or was there a limit?

    Thanks,

    Nathan




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    Hi Nathan

    I can't really answer your q with any confidence. I went to OASC 3 times, twice at Biggin Hill (1976 - GD(P) and 1979 (AEOp), once at Cranwell 2000 (AEO). All of those visits were for the full 3 days. There was no such radical and progressive concept as 'feedback'. If you failed any element of the initial stuff (Meds / Aptitude / Interview) it was first door on the left, quick debrief to discuss options (if any) and catch the bus to Bromley or Grantham station. If your med result wasn't a show stopper, they generally invited you to leave it a year to re-apply. You had no idea what the aptitude score was or where you might have been weak in interview. You simply knew you had to do better next time!

    I'm aware that (in common with most organisations) proper feedback is now provided. That's a good thing! In terms of perseverance, Nathan, all I can tell you is that one of my former colleagues (AEOp - now WSOp) trampled the path to OASC 5 times before they eventually gave in and offered him a commission as an AEO (now WSO). They always said that's what they wanted to see, as it demonstrated commitment and tenacity, which, in the eyes of the military, are desirable traits.

    Short of getting the inside track of current OASC staff, I'm not sure you'd ever know what the criteria for taking the aptitude test is. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's a test for aptitude, designed by clever psychologists etc. At the end of the day, if you haven't got the natural aptitude, you haven't got it, and no amount of trying will alter that.

    I'd love to be an astronaut, but sadly I have to accept it probably isn't going to happen for me at this stage

    However, i wish all you guys the very best of luck. If you get into military in the role you want, then you've done incredibly well, and should be proud of yourselves.

    Ikky
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    (Original post by 0902)
    Seconded, Well done Jamie.

    IIRC, it'll now be a interview at the candidates local AFCO, followed by fitness test at the local Nuffield gym, then the Capitia medical, then the remainder of OASC I believe.

    However, the above could also be the route for the RN Aircrewman selection, so apologies if I've not got it correct.


    Ikaruss, it's interesting. I believe the new route of selection must be a recent change (by recent within the last 5 years - however, I stand to be corrected).
    One thing I wanted to ask, nowadays, you can resit CBAT as many times as you wish (unless you're deemed a complete dimwit) - has it always been the case, or was there a limit?

    Thanks,

    Nathan




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    RAF WSOP do not attend nuffield health as they are assesed the exact same way as potential officers. Fitness assesments are held at OASC comprising;
    Bleep test
    1 minute sit ups
    1 minute press ups
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    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    Good job Jamie. What's next for you?

    I can't get my head round the way they do selection in 2017. In my day, you popped in to the AFCO for a wee chat, then a few weeks later dropped into OASC for the whole procedure. Medical and aptitude first - that culled a high percentage. Interview, a few more dropped out. Finally the group and individual problem solving, followed by hangar leadership exercises. Generally you heard the result after about a month. I applied in May, OASC in July, and started OCTU (poor man's IOT) the following January.

    Seems a lot more convoluted these days, but probably saves the public purse a few quid.
    From my personal experience i'm not sure it saves money in the long run. Especially with regards to travel expenses, so far i have ran up a tab of £320, with an additional £80 to be added for my next trip to Cranwell. But then again i have no idea how much it costs to recruit the 'old' way. Maybe they have reduced costs with the 'new' way and those savings offset the travel expenses.
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    (Original post by TheHog)
    RAF WSOP do not attend nuffield fitness assesments are held at OASC
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is there not a PJFT? 1.5 mile run on a treadmill followed by Press ups & sit ups?


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    (Original post by 0902)
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is there not a PJFT? 1.5 mile run on a treadmill followed by Press ups & sit ups?


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    Hey,
    The information i have recieved from my AFCO they have told me the PJFT is for airman only and that WSOP fitness is held at OASC.
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    Bit random i know guys but if you haven't already i would give 'eye in the sky' a watch currently on Amazon video. Interesting stuff especially for WSOP who could end being sensor operators on the drones.
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    (Original post by TheHog)
    Hey,
    The information i have recieved from my AFCO they have told me the PJFT is for airman only and that WSOP fitness is held at OASC.
    Ah, my sincerest apologies. Again, I think I thought back to RN Aircrewman selection.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Cheers,

    Nathan


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    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    Good job Jamie. What's next for you?

    I can't get my head round the way they do selection in 2017. In my day, you popped in to the AFCO for a wee chat, then a few weeks later dropped into OASC for the whole procedure. Medical and aptitude first - that culled a high percentage. Interview, a few more dropped out. Finally the group and individual problem solving, followed by hangar leadership exercises. Generally you heard the result after about a month. I applied in May, OASC in July, and started OCTU (poor man's IOT) the following January.

    Seems a lot more convoluted these days, but probably saves the public purse a few quid.
    Cheers ikaruss

    I haven't had anything yet from my AFCO but I believe it's the filter interview next hopefully pass that then it will be OASC. Which is interview medical and leadership excercises , after that I'm in limbo a little probably find out more whilst I'm there as to what is after OASC aslong as I pass it 👍
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    (Original post by jamie010893)
    Cheers ikaruss

    I haven't had anything yet from my AFCO but I believe it's the filter interview next hopefully pass that then it will be OASC. Which is interview medical and leadership excercises , after that I'm in limbo a little probably find out more whilst I'm there as to what is after OASC aslong as I pass it 👍
    You will have a medical with capita before you move onto OASC. After OASC if succesful is PRTC then onto Halton etc
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    (Original post by TheHog)
    You will have a medical with capita before you move onto OASC. After OASC if succesful is PRTC then onto Halton etc
    Cheers for the info hog 👍 Hopefully keep progressing
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    (Original post by jamie010893)
    Cheers for the info hog 👍 Hopefully keep progressing
    When you pass your filter interview try and get onto the WSOP fam visit at Cranwell. Its one day and gave a really good insight to WSOP life and training. Got to meet the instructors, current students and get shown around 45 squadron, who do the WSOP training.
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    (Original post by TheHog)
    When you pass your filter interview try and get onto the WSOP fam visit at Cranwell. Its one day and gave a really good insight to WSOP life and training. Got to meet the instructors, current students and get shown around 45 squadron, who do the WSOP training.
    Yeah will do mate, allready been advised to do that if possible
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    (Original post by TheHog)
    From my personal experience i'm not sure it saves money in the long run. Especially with regards to travel expenses, so far i have ran up a tab of £320, with an additional £80 to be added for my next trip to Cranwell. But then again i have no idea how much it costs to recruit the 'old' way. Maybe they have reduced costs with the 'new' way and those savings offset the travel expenses.
    Hi Hog

    I take it those costs are reimbursed, or do candidates now have to fund their own T&S when applying to the armed forces? In answer to your question, I'm not aware of any reports stating what savings have been accrued since Capita was awarded a large chunk of the UK armed forces recruitment piece in 2012.

    However, there are a number of open source reports about the performance of Capita and their IT systems. See here for a Daily Telegraph article from Jan 2017 and here for an IT sector article (Nov16). In both of these articles, for Army, you can read across to RAF and RN.

    As in all things in life, you get what you pay for, and cheap doesn't always (if ever) equate to better.

    I'm sorry that your generation has had to endure the political pygmies and some appalling judgements from the establishment figures of my generation. There are some of us who fight back at the system, but it's a tough battle.

    All the very best guys.
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    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    Hi Hog

    I take it those costs are reimbursed, or do candidates now have to fund their own T&S when applying to the armed forces? In answer to your question, I'm not aware of any reports stating what savings have been accrued since Capita was awarded a large chunk of the UK armed forces recruitment piece in 2012.

    However, there are a number of open source reports about the performance of Capita and their IT systems. See here for a Daily Telegraph article from Jan 2017 and here for an IT sector article (Nov16). In both of these articles, for Army, you can read across to RAF and RN.

    As in all things in life, you get what you pay for, and cheap doesn't always (if ever) equate to better.

    I'm sorry that your generation has had to endure the political pygmies and some appalling judgements from the establishment figures of my generation. There are some of us who fight back at the system, but it's a tough battle.

    All the very best guys.
    Sorry for the lack of clarity, the above figures i mention are ones i will get/have been reimbursed. Initial trips to AFCO for talks and presentations are self funded. CBAT, filter interview, medical and OASC are paid for.

    It is a difficult job trying to 'balance the books' and at the same time maintain an efficient recruitment service. The army had an AFCO in my hometown, been closed for a couple of years now. I wonder how many potential candidates they have lost now that the nearest AFCO to my town is 2 hours away. I have a brother in the army and he 'popped' in one day on a whim 5 years later hes still serving, it wouldn't have happened if he had to travel 2 hours.

    I will have have a read of those articles, they may even be appropiate to discuss at OASC.
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    (Original post by jamie010893)
    Yeah will do mate, allready been advised to do that if possible
    When you do Jamie, ask about the WSOp role on the P8 Poseidon.

    I presume you know that the RAF is getting 9 aircraft, with delivery starting in 2019. There will be 2 operational squadrons standing up (120 - boo, also known as CXX, and 201 - hurrah), and I presume there will be an OCU also (probably 42(R), again hurrah!)

    The P8 has a nominal operating crew of 7 ( 2 x flight deck, 5 x tactical) but with an undisclosed number as relief operators (as with the previous MPA the Nimrod MR2). Of those tactical crew, 2 will be WSOs (Tactical Co-ordinators or TACCOs) and there will be 3 WSOps (sensor operators) split between EW (Electronic Warfare) and ACO (Acoustics). You may have twigged that the RAF haven't started selecting ACO WSOps yet, but will have to pretty soon I'd suggest.

    With 2 squadrons (and potentially 8 crews per sqn), that means there will an operational requirement for at least 64 WSOps. I haven't factored in all the other WSOp roles which generally accompany the capability eg Ops Support, Simulator console staff, Software support, Instructors and standardisation personnel. That's quite a lot of new WSOp blood which will be required. All good for anyone looking to get into the RAF as a WSOp.

    But.......

    Have a think about the basing for P8. RAF Lossiemouth in the far NE of Scotland. Lovely part of the world (I spent 30+ years there), but you may have heard there are a few political rumblings and some of the natives are getting restless. What will this mean for you? Well, for a start, you may (will) find yourself paying different levels of taxation than your colleagues in RAF Lincolnshire. Many Nimrod people bought their own houses up there (and continue to be very happy) but with the threat of IndyRef2 (it's coming, mark my words) and resultant uncertainty over the presence of the RAF in Scotland, then it would be a brave person who would commit to buying a house in the current political climate. And don't forget, it is an awful long way north and you (and / or any partner you have) may not adjust to the long distance separation from family and friends. It will be the only WSOp posting north of Lincolnshire.

    I don't want to put you off, and it will be a cracking job. Honestly, much better than RJ or the other ISTAR platforms, but after the initial euphoria of getting into the RAF has faded, you'll start rebalancing the work / life bit, and then you have the rest of your career to wonder what might have been.

    Something to ponder.

    Ikky
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    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    When you do Jamie, ask about the WSOp role on the P8 Poseidon.

    I presume you know that the RAF is getting 9 aircraft, with delivery starting in 2019. There will be 2 operational squadrons standing up (120 - boo, also known as CXX, and 201 - hurrah), and I presume there will be an OCU also (probably 42(R), again hurrah!)

    The P8 has a nominal operating crew of 7 ( 2 x flight deck, 5 x tactical) but with an undisclosed number as relief operators (as with the previous MPA the Nimrod MR2). Of those tactical crew, 2 will be WSOs (Tactical Co-ordinators or TACCOs) and there will be 3 WSOps (sensor operators) split between EW (Electronic Warfare) and ACO (Acoustics). You may have twigged that the RAF haven't started selecting ACO WSOps yet, but will have to pretty soon I'd suggest.

    With 2 squadrons (and potentially 8 crews per sqn), that means there will an operational requirement for at least 64 WSOps. I haven't factored in all the other WSOp roles which generally accompany the capability eg Ops Support, Simulator console staff, Software support, Instructors and standardisation personnel. That's quite a lot of new WSOp blood which will be required. All good for anyone looking to get into the RAF as a WSOp.

    But.......

    Have a think about the basing for P8. RAF Lossiemouth in the far NE of Scotland. Lovely part of the world (I spent 30+ years there), but you may have heard there are a few political rumblings and some of the natives are getting restless. What will this mean for you? Well, for a start, you may (will) find yourself paying different levels of taxation than your colleagues in RAF Lincolnshire. Many Nimrod people bought their own houses up there (and continue to be very happy) but with the threat of IndyRef2 (it's coming, mark my words) and resultant uncertainty over the presence of the RAF in Scotland, then it would be a brave person who would commit to buying a house in the current political climate. And don't forget, it is an awful long way north and you (and / or any partner you have) may not adjust to the long distance separation from family and friends. It will be the only WSOp posting north of Lincolnshire.

    I don't want to put you off, and it will be a cracking job. Honestly, much better than RJ or the other ISTAR platforms, but after the initial euphoria of getting into the RAF has faded, you'll start rebalancing the work / life bit, and then you have the rest of your career to wonder what might have been.

    Something to ponder.

    Ikky
    To add to the above information when i was at cranwell during my fam visit, the instructors said they currently need to recruit 500 WSOP's over what time scale im unsure. They also told us we couldn't have picked a better time to try and join as a WSOP.
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    (Original post by TheHog)
    Sorry for the lack of clarity, the above figures i mention are ones i will get/have been reimbursed. Initial trips to AFCO for talks and presentations are self funded. CBAT, filter interview, medical and OASC are paid for.

    It is a difficult job trying to 'balance the books' and at the same time maintain an efficient recruitment service. The army had an AFCO in my hometown, been closed for a couple of years now. I wonder how many potential candidates they have lost now that the nearest AFCO to my town is 2 hours away. I have a brother in the army and he 'popped' in one day on a whim 5 years later hes still serving, it wouldn't have happened if he had to travel 2 hours.

    I will have have a read of those articles, they may even be appropiate to discuss at OASC.
    Hi Hog, your brother's experience was fairly common in the recent past before all the draconian cutbacks. Personally I think it was better to have military people running recruitment end to end, not least because they had experienced life in uniform and could understand where candidates were coming from. If something went wrong in the application process, a uniformed person could kick ass and get it back on track. I'm not sure that happens any more as commercial priorities often override a pragmatic approach.

    I'm not sure I'd use those articles at interview, however, you could check the MoD's quarterly manning documents (should be locatable on Google if they still publish them) just before you go for interview, and get a feel for how the recruitment targets are looking. There seems to be a lot of concern at present, that recruitment is generally below what was forecast (especially the Reserves) and this would obviously have an impact on your life in the military (ie you'll be more stretched). I would leave it at that, cos it then demonstrates you have a deeper understanding of Defence issues. Don't dig yourself a hole by saying you think the whole system is a crock of sh1t (leave that to me!) but just say that it is a 'challenging' environment. Challenging is a word I use frequently in my reports. It covers a whole raft of subjects and sounds nicer than saying "we're all doomed".

    All the best

    Ikky
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    (Original post by TheHog)
    To add to the above information when i was at cranwell during my fam visit, the instructors said they currently need to recruit 500 WSOP's over what time scale im unsure. They also told us we couldn't have picked a better time to try and join as a WSOP.
    Haha they would say that Hog! I know a lot of the instructors on 45 including the boss. They lie like 'cheap Changi watches'.

    No seriously, they're right, there's a massive requirement with all the ISTAR capabilities ramping up. However, I urge you all to think carefully about the role and where you see yourself in 5 / 10 / 15 years time. It's really hard, but if you don't have a game plan (life plan) it's easy to get sucked into a lifestyle where you end up very unhappy with no obvious way out. The life portrayed in the recruiting literature and online, looks all brilliant, but there can and will be many dark times, and you need to be aware of those as well. And I mean personal as well as professional.

    I had a brilliant 30 year career, and saw places and things that Joe Public would have to pay £000's to see. I also experienced the loss of many good friends and colleagues. But when I joined, I never even gave the future a second thought, I didn't even know (or care) how much they were going to pay me as it was just a privilege to be able to fly in one of HMs finest jets.

    Times have changed, and you really have to treat this like any other job, and know what the 'offer' is and if it matches up to your life plan in the future. Just think very carefully, and don't get taken in by the gloss and glamour.

    Ikky
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    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    When you do Jamie, ask about the WSOp role on the P8 Poseidon.

    I presume you know that the RAF is getting 9 aircraft, with delivery starting in 2019. There will be 2 operational squadrons standing up (120 - boo, also known as CXX, and 201 - hurrah), and I presume there will be an OCU also (probably 42(R), again hurrah!)

    The P8 has a nominal operating crew of 7 ( 2 x flight deck, 5 x tactical) but with an undisclosed number as relief operators (as with the previous MPA the Nimrod MR2). Of those tactical crew, 2 will be WSOs (Tactical Co-ordinators or TACCOs) and there will be 3 WSOps (sensor operators) split between EW (Electronic Warfare) and ACO (Acoustics). You may have twigged that the RAF haven't started selecting ACO WSOps yet, but will have to pretty soon I'd suggest.

    With 2 squadrons (and potentially 8 crews per sqn), that means there will an operational requirement for at least 64 WSOps. I haven't factored in all the other WSOp roles which generally accompany the capability eg Ops Support, Simulator console staff, Software support, Instructors and standardisation personnel. That's quite a lot of new WSOp blood which will be required. All good for anyone looking to get into the RAF as a WSOp.

    But.......

    Have a think about the basing for P8. RAF Lossiemouth in the far NE of Scotland. Lovely part of the world (I spent 30+ years there), but you may have heard there are a few political rumblings and some of the natives are getting restless. What will this mean for you? Well, for a start, you may (will) find yourself paying different levels of taxation than your colleagues in RAF Lincolnshire. Many Nimrod people bought their own houses up there (and continue to be very happy) but with the threat of IndyRef2 (it's coming, mark my words) and resultant uncertainty over the presence of the RAF in Scotland, then it would be a brave person who would commit to buying a house in the current political climate. And don't forget, it is an awful long way north and you (and / or any partner you have) may not adjust to the long distance separation from family and friends. It will be the only WSOp posting north of Lincolnshire.

    I don't want to put you off, and it will be a cracking job. Honestly, much better than RJ or the other ISTAR platforms, but after the initial euphoria of getting into the RAF has faded, you'll start rebalancing the work / life bit, and then you have the rest of your career to wonder what might have been.

    Something to ponder.

    Ikky
    This is exactly what I have been looking for.

    I originally applied as an airman and passed my AST but I was told aircrew is the way to go so I applied for WSOp a few days ago. I wasn't sure if the WSOp role was to be trained for the P-8 Poseidon but i'm glad it is and I can only hope I will be streamed to it.

    I also have a general question. After NCAITC and your base training for aircrew do you have a choice on what branch of WSOp and aircraft you can be streamed to or do they just stream you to what they need?
 
 
 
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