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What if: You've worked 50 hours this week and stopped after that. Fair enough? Watch

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    I think this is covering teaching specifically when ops post appeared more of a generic principle a number of points in response to this.

    Firstly it mentioned he is doing a maths degree well i have said many times that a degree should be a full time job so if you decide to take extra work into that then you have put yourself i. That situation and should be expected to do the same work load anyone else would be.

    As is the situation for anyone that takes on a seconadary job.

    I also think that if you take on a job for whatever reason knowing in advance the commitments which you should because you should have researched then you don't have a right to make demand and for changes to those conditions etc. Now if the conditions or terms were mis represented or not what a reasonable person on your position would have been led to believe I think you definitely have a case in that situation.

    Teaching is known to be a profession that requires long hours apparently so you know in advance what you are committing to.

    Myself been autistic, I have little confidence that I would be able to deal with or handle a class of 30 students with many of them been unruly or misbehaving. Sure if all 30 children behaved like angels and were fully engaged I think I could teach just fine but we all know that is rarely the case. I avoid the profession because I would never be able to cope with misbehaving children.

    However I should point out that even been guaranteed perfect anagels which I know is not possible it is still a profession I would not choose to pursue, because of the long hours and low pay.

    It is all very well saying people should be passionate about the job etc you could say that about almost anything.

    The fact is though that of their is a shortage of people going into a field or staying in that field that shortage exists for a reason. Their could be many reasons for this one could be that the pay is to low another could be that the hours are too long or maybe it's that many feel they don't et enough respect for what they do and they are over regulated/monitored etc.

    We need to address what can and needs to be done to make the career choice of been a teacher more attractive. Which might require more pay and less hour or might require a number of other things. Personally I think pay and hours probably is a significant contributing factor but I am pretty sure their will be other factors too.

    It's unreasonable to take on a job knowing the terms and commitments of that job and then refuse to abide by those however great or bad those terms and commitments may be.

    It is also naive and impractical to refuse to alnowledge their is a problem when you have a shortage of people wanting to do that job.
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    (Original post by mcgreevy1993)
    i think simply refusing to do more than 50 hours a week would get you in the firing line of any superior in a school. Books have to be marked, data has to be inputted, and on top of that you have the regular distractions of this of dealing with students, which sounds sad - because that's the reason your there - but regularly staff must use the time they dedicate to all the paperwork that comes with teaching to deal with students. Which means staying late, working through lunch or taking your work home with you. I think simply refusing to do more hours just wouldn't work. It's sounds ridiculous. I work in admin in school til the end of next week, I may get a ten minute lunch break if im lucky. People tell me who don't work in a school, go, it's your unpaid break. But the culture is there for all staff. I know this is nothing compared to the hours teachers throw in - but when you have less responsibility and being paid 10 grand less than a teacher - it stills comes to something. There's no stopping in the education culture, so if you stand up and go against that - you will be the only one.
    Thanks mcgreevy - yes is seems that this is the culture which is a shame as it's quite damaging overall.
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    I think this is covering teaching specifically when ops post appeared more of a generic principle a number of points in response to this.

    Firstly it mentioned he is doing a maths degree well i have said many times that a degree should be a full time job so if you decide to take extra work into that then you have put yourself i. That situation and should be expected to do the same work load anyone else would be.

    As is the situation for anyone that takes on a seconadary job.

    I also think that if you take on a job for whatever reason knowing in advance the commitments which you should because you should have researched then you don't have a right to make demand and for changes to those conditions etc. Now if the conditions or terms were mis represented or not what a reasonable person on your position would have been led to believe I think you definitely have a case in that situation.

    Teaching is known to be a profession that requires long hours apparently so you know in advance what you are committing to.

    Myself been autistic, I have little confidence that I would be able to deal with or handle a class of 30 students with many of them been unruly or misbehaving. Sure if all 30 children behaved like angels and were fully engaged I think I could teach just fine but we all know that is rarely the case. I avoid the profession because I would never be able to cope with misbehaving children.

    However I should point out that even been guaranteed perfect anagels which I know is not possible it is still a profession I would not choose to pursue, because of the long hours and low pay.

    It is all very well saying people should be passionate about the job etc you could say that about almost anything.

    The fact is though that of their is a shortage of people going into a field or staying in that field that shortage exists for a reason. Their could be many reasons for this one could be that the pay is to low another could be that the hours are too long or maybe it's that many feel they don't et enough respect for what they do and they are over regulated/monitored etc. We need to address what can and needs to be done to make the career choice of been a teacher more attractive. Which might require more pay and less hour or might require a number of other things. Personally I think pay and hours probably is a significant contributing factor but I am pretty sure their will be other factors too. It's unreasonable to take on a job knowing the terms and commitments of that job and then refuse to abide by those however great or bad those terms and commitments may be. It is also naive and impractical to refuse to alnowledge their is a problem when you have a shortage of people wanting to do that job.
    (Original post by Luke7456)
    I also think that if you take on a job for whatever reason knowing in advance the commitments which you should because you should have researched then you don't have a right to make demand and for changes to those conditions etc. Now if the conditions or terms were mis represented or not what a reasonable person on your position would have been led to believe I think you definitely have a case in that situation.
    To a degree I agree with you... In that if there was a job that clearly involved someone slapping you round the face every 40 minutes it would be odd to be confused about why you get slapped about the face. However - the protest against the face slapping might also be deemed as reasonable. People might argue that the face slapping is harmful to the position as it's driving people away from the career, and stressing out those who are in the position.

    (Original post by Luke7456)
    Teaching is known to be a profession that requires long hours apparently so you know in advance what you are committing to.
    Yes it is - and the nature of these hours is extremely vague (as evidenced in this thread). As well as many of these hours being taken up by work of a nature many teachers don't agree with, so it's not a pointless topic for discussion in my opinion. (And this is part of me finding out in advance).

    (Original post by Luke7456)
    We need to address what can and needs to be done to make the career choice of been a teacher more attractive. Which might require more pay and less hour or might require a number of other things. Personally I think pay and hours probably is a significant contributing factor but I am pretty sure their will be other factors too.
    Yes - these are both factors, if one of them was to be changed first I think most would go for the time.

    [QUOTE=Luke7456;69436410] It's unreasonable to take on a job knowing the terms and commitments of that job and then refuse to abide by those however great or bad those terms and commitments may be.

    It is also naive and impractical to refuse to alnowledge their is a problem when

    I agree - but where does it state how many hours are to be done ? It's all so vague. If you could point me to somewhere which states what the commitments actually are that would be great as I can't really find anything that isn't a blank cheque on the part of employer.
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    [QUOTE=ithinkso;69438144]To a degree I agree with you... In that if there was a job that clearly involved someone slapping you round the face every 40 minutes it would be odd to be confused about why you get slapped about the face. However - the protest against the face slapping might also be deemed as reasonable. People might argue that the face slapping is harmful to the position as it's driving people away from the career, and stressing out those who are in the position.



    Yes it is - and the nature of these hours is extremely vague (as evidenced in this thread). As well as many of these hours being taken up by work of a nature many teachers don't agree with, so it's not a pointless topic for discussion in my opinion. (And this is part of me finding out in advance).



    Yes - these are both factors, if one of them was to be changed first I think most would go for the time.

    (Original post by Luke7456)
    It's unreasonable to take on a job knowing the terms and commitments of that job and then refuse to abide by those however great or bad those terms and commitments may be.

    It is also naive and impractical to refuse to alnowledge their is a problem when

    I agree - but where does it state how many hours are to be done ? It's all so vague. If you could point me to somewhere which states what the commitments actually are that would be great as I can't really find anything that isn't a blank cheque on the part of employer.
    Well I have not looked specifically at teaching because it's not my desired career path it may be vague about time commitments. However a lot of teachers complain about it so it's clear something is up and anyone applying for such a job should bear that in mind.

    I want to do a maths degree a common career for this among others is investment banking whilst the pay for that is significantly better then it is in teaching one thing I hear a lot is that investment banking involves long hours. I don't think it will say somewhere you will be expected to work 60-80 hours a week etc however basic googling talking to others and doin research which any responsible person would do would give me a good idea on the hours.

    Now if I applied to a specific company which was not typical of an industry or was unique its own way and the hours were vague and their was no reasonable way to know this then I'd have a case to complain.
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    I wish more people in this country were like the OP. If more people stood up to the extreme demands made in some areas of teaching then a change for the better would be beneficial for staff and learners alike. I really do believe that.
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    (Original post by beautifulbigmacs)
    I wish more people in this country were like the OP. If more people stood up to the extreme demands made in some areas of teaching then a change for the better would be beneficial for staff and learners alike. I really do believe that.
    Thanks beautifulbigmacs, it's nice to know I'm not on a completely different wavelength! Unfortunately it seems that I'm in the minority though, as I'm certainly getting the impression that such sentiments (of prioritizing work and accepting that somethings just don't get done if there are too many) are heavily frowned on at best.

    I'm concerned to learn that the job isn't as secure as I had imagined it to be, which is also a bit of a no no for me. I've heard of people getting flagged for things such as what I'm saying which would be damaging. As if it just says "failure to complete duties" then there's no way of someone really knowing that the duties were nonsensical extras that were pilled on top of everything else.

    I had imagined that there was more autonomy, that if the children were getting decent results then they would in a way speak for themself. This also seems to be false. It seems that there are reams and reams of paper work for each child

    So It's more than likely I'll cancel the course that I was due to do in conjunction with my degree and focus the time more towards computing and industry or something.

    I have to admit that the research I've been doing over the last few weeks has been saddening though. I was pretty excited about the prospect of teaching. I appreciate that this sounds a touch silly without classroom experience, but I have to move things along a bit (with this course and what not). :/
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    Further education isn't a cake walk but the hours can be less than secondary. This may be an option for you.
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    (Original post by beautifulbigmacs)
    Further education isn't a cake walk but the hours can be less than secondary. This may be an option for you.
    Do you have any links I could check, ? As when people say FE I'm not *too* sure what they mean. I mean, University lecturing obviously requires a PhD which I won't have, so would it be collage or something? All my research has been on secondary, so I'm really sure how this fits in.

    I had considered Private / Independent schools as I've been led to believe that the quality of teaching is better there (with respect to the amount of nonsense the teacher has to put up with). However, I haven't gone to a russell group university and believe those places get the cream of the crop so to speak.

    Thanks!
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    Colleges need maths teachers to teach functional skills, gcse and possibly A level maths. I'd urge you to contact your local colleges for more info as they may offer teacher training for this.

    Common routes into FE teaching are a post compulsory PGCE or a level 5 diploma in education and training.
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    From your comments 'ithinkso' it seems unlikely you would enjoy a career in teaching as you are anticipating all the disadvantages rather than looking at the advantages. If you haven't already done so, you could arrange for some experience in a school to see what teachers actually do.
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    I have to agree with others who say that it depends exactly *what* is left undone. For example, if my IB students' coursework is not uploaded to the IBO by March 15th, that clearly jeopardises their future in an unacceptable way, whereas if I don't mark my Year 8s' conversations between two animals about their encounter with a human for another couple of weeks then that is not going to matter so much. Priorities...

    In terms of the quality of education *always* being better in private/independent schools...don't be so sure about that (I speak as a teacher who's worked in this sector for nearly 9 years).
 
 
 
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