Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

NHS faces humanitarian crisis Watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    NHS faces 'humanitarian crisis' as demand rises, British Red Cross warns

    Senior doctor calls health service ‘broken’ after deaths of two patients left to wait on trolleys at Worcestershire Royal hospital

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...P=share_btn_tw
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    NHS faces 'humanitarian crisis' as demand rises, British Red Cross warns

    Senior doctor calls health service ‘broken’ after deaths of two patients left to wait on trolleys at Worcestershire Royal hospital

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...P=share_btn_tw
    Nothing that private contractors won't be able to fix though I'm sure?

    Maybe we should hire the same companies who run the trains to run the NHS, they're doing a great job there.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    At some point, an NHS crisis will be the Conservative government's achilles heel, because when more and more people have had bad experiences for themselves or their relatives suffering or dying because of funding cuts it will create a lot of distress. The standard Tory responses are likely to be:
    - divert blame towards NHS management or the BMA saying they need to do more to drive efficiency savings
    - give standard lines from their PR advisors on how they are committed to delivery and modernisation and are working towards a world-class NHS
    - attack whichever Labour spokesperson criticises them by saying under the Blair government Labour carried out lots of privatisation of their own

    If the NHS gets steadily worse over a period of years then these arguments will become less and less well received and Theresa May will curse whoever in the Leave campaign put that £350m a week for the NHS as that will become a rallying point and call for more funding.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    At some point, an NHS crisis will be the Conservative government's achilles heel, because when more and more people have had bad experiences for themselves or their relatives suffering or dying because of funding cuts it will create a lot of distress.
    Except of course there aren't cuts to the NHS. It's budget is being increased above real terms each and every year. The straightforward point is that there are always problems and pinch-points in the NHS; how these are handled from a political perspective is generally a matter of skill and strategy. In most cases, they largely go unnoticed by the wider public, while the majority of people who interact with the NHS have broadly positive experiences.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    What a load of old tosh. There's a crisis in a system that spends £4000 per second is there?

    A few people in a few places have a mare, but everyone else gets free surgery and free drugs.

    Just grown up.

    People talk such utter crap about the NHS, and "Tory cuts" like the NHS is running on donations from charity shops. The NHS has a budget larger than the GDP of several OPEC countries and half the EU.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    In most cases, they largely go unnoticed by the wider public,
    It certainly helps when the right wing tabloids ignore it.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)

    People talk such utter crap about the NHS, and "Tory cuts" like the NHS is running on donations from charity shops. The NHS has a budget larger than the GDP of several OPEC countries and half the EU.
    A charity has literally had to step in and help you plonker :rofl:
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    When you hear of the waits some people have for an ambulance or in A+E, then crisis is the right word to use. Make sure you never vote Tory- or abstain from voting.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingHarold)
    When you hear of the waits some people have for an ambulance or in A+E, then crisis is the right word to use. Make sure you never vote Tory- or abstain from voting.
    Things like A&E waiting times, when you look at the extremes, usually represent a fairly sensible response. You will see stats for people waiting over eight hours and so on: I would hazard a guess that they probably shouldn't be there in the first place and are not emergency cases.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    What a load of old tosh. There's a crisis in a system that spends £4000 per second is there?

    A few people in a few places have a mare, but everyone else gets free surgery and free drugs.

    Just grown up.

    People talk such utter crap about the NHS, and "Tory cuts" like the NHS is running on donations from charity shops. The NHS has a budget larger than the GDP of several OPEC countries and half the EU.
    Look at the reports from people who actually work inside the system:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...eir-week-in-ae

    Have you actually got knowledge of the situation on the inside at the moment or are you just spouting off "what a load of old tosh", "just grow up" when people raise legitimate concerns because you want to put your head in the sand and pretend that the world is all great.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Look at the reports from people who actually work inside the system:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...eir-week-in-ae

    Have you actually got knowledge of the situation on the inside at the moment or are you just spouting off "what a load of old tosh", "just grow up" when people raise legitimate concerns because you want to put your head in the sand and pretend that the world is all great.

    shroud-waving n. and adj. Brit. colloq. (freq. depreciative) (a) n. the practice of attempting to gain support for health-care funding by highlighting the life-threatening consequences to patients of underfunding; (in extended use) concentration on the negative effects of a particular policy, etc., in order to influence public opinion; (b) adj. that engages in shroud-waving.


    Earliest documented use:

    1967 P. L. Nokes Professional Task in Welfare Pract. i. 7 Doctors are able to indulge in a practice that is known in hospital planning as ‘shroud waving’, the habit of pointing out the disasters that will ensue if they do not get their own way.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    A charity has literally had to step in and help you plonker :rofl:
    But what you are saying makes no sense. If a health system is failing, it means that people are dropping dead all over the place every day. Currently we are carrying out millions of routine deliveries of healthcare successfully every day. We have fertility treatment and cosmetic surgery on the NHS as well as spending billions on primary care.

    In some places, there are problems and service is sub-par. This is not a symptom of failure, but an inevitability. It is impossible to have a service that is perfect, because it is just so big. There is no body of comparable size that delivers a perfect service, regardless of funding. We could double the NHS budget, and people would still die or be left on trolleys.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Look at the reports from people who actually work inside the system:
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...eir-week-in-ae

    Have you actually got knowledge of the situation on the inside at the moment or are you just spouting off "what a load of old tosh", "just grow up" when people raise legitimate concerns because you want to put your head in the sand and pretend that the world is all great.
    Do you believe that if NHS funding were significantly increased, there would be a significant improvement in delivery of service?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    But what you are saying makes no sense. If a health system is failing, it means that people are dropping dead all over the place every day. Currently we are carrying out millions of routine deliveries of healthcare successfully every day. We have fertility treatment and cosmetic surgery on the NHS as well as spending billions on primary care.

    In some places, there are problems and service is sub-par. This is not a symptom of failure, but an inevitability. It is impossible to have a service that is perfect, because it is just so big. There is no body of comparable size that delivers a perfect service, regardless of funding. We could double the NHS budget, and people would still die or be left on trolleys.
    A charity is having to be brought in because the NHS can not cope. So that bit of the NHS is relying on charity donations. Simples.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    A charity is having to be brought in because the NHS can not cope. So that bit of the NHS is relying on charity donations. Simples.
    Charities implement government policy all over the shop - in many cases, they're just extensions of the state. It's not unusual at all. Some charities get almost all their funding from the state.

    It's not simples at all. Healthcare economics might be one of the most complex things there is. If it were simples, it wouldn't be such a big issue.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Charities implement government policy all over the shop - in many cases, they're just extensions of the state. It's not unusual at all. Some charities get almost all their funding from the state.

    It's not simples at all. Healthcare economics might be one of the most complex things there is. If it were simples, it wouldn't be such a big issue.
    Well you made it pretty clear in your post I was replying to that charity stepping in to run the NHS was a sign of the doom times for the NHS, you big weasel. This isn't some pre made agreement contract thins made with the red cross either. It is stepping in due to an emergency. Like what happens in poor developing countries, not what is supposed to happen in a rich nation. This is not an acceptable situation to be in.

    I'm baffled as to why when the red cross described something as a humanitarian crisis we are supposed to just shrug it off lol. You obviously don't care that much about the well being of our old and sick.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    'The worst conditions in memory': NHS doctors describe their week in A&E"

    ‘We are devastated by underemployment’

    ‘Nothing can be done’

    ‘It’s not acceptable to practise medicine in this way’

    ‘These are just some of my experiences this week in A&E ...’

    ‘The entire system is crumbling’

    ‘Everybody is terrified’

    ‘We have a daily lack of beds’

    'We were truly swamped’

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...eir-week-in-ae
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    shroud-waving n. and adj. Brit. colloq. (freq. depreciative) (a) n. the practice of attempting to gain support for health-care funding by highlighting the life-threatening consequences to patients of underfunding; (in extended use) concentration on the negative effects of a particular policy, etc., in order to influence public opinion; (b) adj. that engages in shroud-waving.

    Earliest documented use:

    1967 P. L. Nokes Professional Task in Welfare Pract. i. 7 Doctors are able to indulge in a practice that is known in hospital planning as ‘shroud waving’, the habit of pointing out the disasters that will ensue if they do not get their own way.
    Do you think that underfunding critical health services won't have an effect?

    It is reasonable for medical professionals who understand the effects on patients of underfunding resources to point this out.

    A lot of "experts" on the economy told us that leaving the EU could cause serious problems for the economy. They also happened to be Remain supporters. Did you ignore what they had to say because they were pointing out the disasters that would ensue if they didn't get their own way?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Do you believe that if NHS funding were significantly increased, there would be a significant improvement in delivery of service?
    Yes. There are obvious constraints that are leading to delays in treatment: availability of medical staff, facilities and ability to purchase drugs.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by L i b)
    Things like A&E waiting times, when you look at the extremes, usually represent a fairly sensible response. You will see stats for people waiting over eight hours and so on: I would hazard a guess that they probably shouldn't be there in the first place and are not emergency cases.
    You would hope so, but sadly this isn't the case.

    I recall one shift in the ED where I walked down the corridor into A&E speaking to each paramedic about the patient they were waiting to hand over. These were patients waiting hours since being picked up following a 999 call.

    I then had to decide who got the next available cubicle. This meant picking from someone with chest pain and ECG changes, someone with end stage renal failure and a temperature of 38.5, a confused elderly lady with a probable broken hip, a demented 70yr old who had rolled his car and was blocked and collared and a young lad who had hit his head on concrete and had lost consciousness.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.