Christianity, like many religions, is fantasy, like Alice in Wonderland

Original post by sleepysnooze

yeah, basically

people say that the knowledge of good and evil was the thing that caused them to understand what evil was (because in the garden all they knew of was goodness) so, naturally, humans wouldn't want to know what evil is, right?
well...
god put that tree right in the middle of the garden of eden
and the "fruit" of knowledge looked like it tasted good, and there was a ****ing talking snake telling them to eat it (god apparently didn't think pest control through...)
*and* instead of simply not making such a tree at all, god *did* decide to make it, for some ****ed up reason
and while some people say "oh it was because god wanted us to have the option of free will, and we can't have free will without knowledge" - does this god really want us to live in a world of horrific misery and pointless suffering just so we have the knowledge of what that suffering is and the free will to *try* and prevent it? I mean, this god is a massive dong, right? I don't know about you. he is truly a fascinatingly stupid deity if these are his choices for his "special species" on this one particular planet. he could have just not made that ****ing tree, or forgiven them for eating from it, but nah, he's a drama queen who wanted to write a ****ing book about it apparently

Translation: the bible is wrong because the fundamentalists are wrong.

Reply 27

Original post by HenryHill

You mean "tolerate" then.

Every supernatural claim made about Christianity, that can be judged on evidence, has been shown to be false. There has never been any evidence to support the existence of the supernatural in any form. The origins of Christianity through earlier precursor beliefs is well documented.
So while this does not amount to "100% wrong", it certainly provides enough grounds for any rational thinker to reject it.

The problem with this is that to some, a simple statement of logic or fact can sound "condescending" if it challenges their deeply-held beliefs. I agree that is is usually best to avoid being deliberately rude, but there is no requirement to avoid hurting people's feelings.

Every? Can you give a few examples? When you say origins to Christianity, are you talking about narratives like the flood etc which have similar myths in other cultures or are you actually talking about the origin of *Christianity* which had specific views about the messiah, about monotheism, Jesus and the preceding Jewish story?

Reply 28

Original post by Robby2312

Respect is earned not given.Christianity has done nothing to earn respect.It has been responsible for homophobia throughout the centuries.I wonder how many suicides that led to? It's not nice or moral to call someone sinful just because of something they can't help.Christianity was also responsible for excaberating the Aids crisis by teaching condoms were sinful.It has also held back science quite a lot over the years.It supported slavery and was not nearly critical enough of the Nazis indeed the teaching that Jews were responsible for Christ's death probably led to a large amount of anti-jewish sentiment.All in all I don't find it worthy of respect.Homophobia and a lack of curiosity about the big questions of life are not things to respect.They are actually things to hold in contempt.

Erm, how about essentially being the only driving force for the first hospitals and universities to built in Europe? Or for being the major, If not only, reason why Europe didn't fall back into the Dark Ages with the fall of Rome due to monks copying the bible and keeping some element of reading and writing skills alive? And keeping the traditions of Greek philosophers alive (through which modern science arose)?

And about holding back science, we have spoken about this. When told to give an example it always seem to stem from from debunked folk history.

Reply 29

username2763536

15

Original post by Whitewell

Erm, how about essentially being the only driving force for the first hospitals and universities to built in Europe? Or for being the major, If not only, reason why Europe didn't fall back into the Dark Ages with the fall of Rome due to monks copying the bible and keeping some element of reading and writing skills alive? And keeping the traditions of Greek philosophers alive (through which modern science arose)?

And about holding back science, we have spoken about this. When told to give an example it always seem to stem from from debunked folk history.

Yeah we have talked about it and you were wrong.Galileo was convicted of Heresy.Heresy is a theological thing.It means blaspheming against God.It wasn't to do with a lack of scientific evidence.Maybe that contributed but the main thing was Heresy.As in they thought his views went against God.

There were also other scientists.Sure the church did contribute to education and literacy but it also banned disection.Because it thought the human body was sacred.That meant that we were stuck with galen's theories for centuries.It essentially taught the same wrong thingd for centuries instead of finding out new knowledge.Banning disection held back medical knowledge.Da vinci was one person who contributed to anatomy because he did disection which the church banned.The church was also very against Darwin.Sure at that time there was a lack of evidence but it was more that they didn't want to believe we were related to apes.

Reply 30

HenryHill

1

Original post by Whitewell

Every? Can you give a few examples?

Genesis 1. It is demonstrably false.
Adam and Eve. Demonstrably false.
Noah and the Flood. Demonstrably false.
The virgin birth. Demonstrably false.
The resurrection. Demonstrably false.

When you say origins to Christianity, are you talking about narratives like the flood etc which have similar myths in other cultures or are you actually talking about the origin of *Christianity* which had specific views about the messiah, about monotheism, Jesus and the preceding Jewish story?

Both.

Reply 31

Original post by HenryHill

Genesis 1. It is demonstrably false.
Adam and Eve. Demonstrably false.
Noah and the Flood. Demonstrably false.
The virgin birth. Demonstrably false.
The resurrection. Demonstrably false.

First 3 if you read like a fundamentalist literalist, but that is the minority of Christians and certainly doesn't stand for Christianity as such. Second 2 can only be achieved by making question begging assumptions.

Original post by HenryHill

Both.

The latter is certainly not well documented, in fact the hypothesis are notoriously flimsy in accounting for how Jesus came to be seen as God, how Trinitarianism was considered within monotheism and many how many new interpretations were read out from the Old Testament.

Reply 32

the bear

Original post by IFoundWonderland

Alice in Wonderland is a lot more fun.

the author was a clergyman. how ironic.

Reply 33

the bear

Original post by HenryHill

Genesis 1. It is demonstrably false.
Adam and Eve. Demonstrably false.
Noah and the Flood. Demonstrably false.
The virgin birth. Demonstrably false.
The resurrection. Demonstrably false.

The Pillar of Saltiness. Demonstrably true.

Reply 34

Pride

21

Original post by Quiet Benin

I have been agnostic for a few months now. I just don't understand why people believe in religion - the route of all evil. It's 2017, isn't it time to stop praying to God/Allah/Buddha and start finding ourselves? Why the **** you still believe in it?

My parents can't accept that i'm no longer a christian and neither can a church in my uni city is accepting this well. The Pastor who is the same age as me have refused to co-operate with me and still bothers me hence i still have an unhealthy habit to go to church. I found out God is or not real after doing strong prayers and realisation after smoking strong cannabis. Bare in mind i used to see myself as a strong christian before i lost it and realise it is all fake

The truth (and i'm not even right wing) people should keep religion to themselves. I have had it. God does not exist or he exist but doesn't give a ****. If he actually did exist, my mental health would have vanished a decade ago and the world would be a better place. Just think about it. Just had it with Christians especially with these 'black' Christians (I'm Black too) - they piss me off the most with their 'praise and worship' and 'crazy deliverance'. As someone who believes in spiritualism, a deliverance involves TALKING WITH DEMONS AND CASTING THEM OUT, Not falling down and making noises.

Imagine one christian girl in uni (who i still have feelings for) indirectly insulating that i'm autistic because i'm introverted and going to a church will solve your weak social skills :mad:

. She's meant to be a christian showing me love but no, she shows me passive aggressiveness because i'm shy.

And people please how can i come out with the habit of not going to church (i know a weird question). I have no interest yet i know i will go at least once a week.

God doesn't give you everything you want, and allows you to remain suffering with your mental health condition. Therefore he doesn't exist.

It's a really bad argument when you think about it, but many people use it to justify their atheism.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 35

Plantagenet Crown

Indeed, Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc, it's all false :yep:

Reply 36

will'o'wisp

3

Original post by Quiet Benin

I have been agnostic for a few months now. I just don't understand why people believe in religion - the route of all evil. It's 2017, isn't it time to stop praying to God/Allah/Buddha and start finding ourselves? Why the **** you still believe in it?

My parents can't accept that i'm no longer a christian and neither can a church in my uni city is accepting this well. The Pastor who is the same age as me have refused to co-operate with me and still bothers me hence i still have an unhealthy habit to go to church. I found out God is or not real after doing strong prayers and realisation after smoking strong cannabis. Bare in mind i used to see myself as a strong christian before i lost it and realise it is all fake

The truth (and i'm not even right wing) people should keep religion to themselves. I have had it. God does not exist or he exist but doesn't give a ****. If he actually did exist, my mental health would have vanished a decade ago and the world would be a better place. Just think about it. Just had it with Christians especially with these 'black' Christians (I'm Black too) - they piss me off the most with their 'praise and worship' and 'crazy deliverance'. As someone who believes in spiritualism, a deliverance involves TALKING WITH DEMONS AND CASTING THEM OUT, Not falling down and making noises.

Imagine one christian girl in uni (who i still have feelings for) indirectly insulating that i'm autistic because i'm introverted and going to a church will solve your weak social skills :mad:

. She's meant to be a christian showing me love but no, she shows me passive aggressiveness because i'm shy.

And people please how can i come out with the habit of not going to church (i know a weird question). I have no interest yet i know i will go at least once a week.

Basically like a bystander who has all this supposed power but can't do anything about the current world.

It's just like they don't exist at all. What's the difference?

Reply 37

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by HotDetermination

You should respect their beliefs, even if you don't agree with them. Neither side is 100% right or wrong so making it seem so is silly. Generally, it's best to just leave people to believe what they want to believe: religion is a sensisitive topic and you could start an argument if you're not careful.

Nonsense. I respect your right to hold any belief but that doesn't extend to the belief itself. So you respect Naziism, fascism etc?

Reply 38

Balabanator

2

Religion to me is like a drug. It can have positive effects and meanings but overengagement can have serious consequences.

In terms of philosophy and self-awareness, I think it's fair to say that the only thing you can truly know is that you know nothing. As stoicism, the platform for self-improvement goes, your decisions and state of mind should be a result of physical experiences.

Do you feel pleasure going to church? Does it contribute to a positive atmosphere? Do it.

Constantly questioning a rigid concept like God will serve you nothing. Try to realise that throughout the ages individuals were not entirely fixated on their religion as a means to explain everything.

Reply 39