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Rail Fares Too Cheap, Claims Tim Worstall Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Actually you'll find the railways to be the only major thing where statistically the richer you are the more money you're taking out of the public purse
    Ahem.

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    No that isn't the point, as my examples of Air Passenger Duty and Insurance Premium Tax illustrate. Excise duties are pure taxes. They pay for a part of total government revenue. They don't cover the burden to government of an activity and then provide some cream on top to pay for other activities. That never was the case and motoring lobby are the only people that think that should be the case. Petrol is taxed, not because roads cost money but because petrol, unlike wig powder, has price inelastic demand and is therefore a reliable source of substantial revenue.
    Good to see the mind readers are back, clearly you know my argument better than I do.

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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    Does seem like a pretty shallow piece - from an ASI fellow (who'd have expected that?) - people driving cars or even walking down the pavement are using infrastructure that is paid for and maintained as a public good. he doesn't make any effort to show why it's OK to use tax money to fix potholes in the road* but wrong to subsidise other transport infrastructure.

    FWIW commuter rail is quite heavily subsidised in the USA - the MTA in new york is subsidised by about $7 per passenger journey, it's a really cheap system to use. in the heart of global capitalism it's seen as a price worth paying in order to get people into and out of work efficiently.

    *UK 'car tax' is not a ringfenced tax used to repair roads BTW
    Talking to a wall. Jammy thinks big gov are evil and we should privatise everything, despite the obvious consequences.
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    (Original post by Abdukazam)
    Talking to a wall. Jammy thinks big gov are evil and we should privatise everything, despite the obvious consequences.
    Who are you again?

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    Why do we even pay tax and national insurance in this country

    we get paid barely anything compared to other first world nations yet taxed a ridiculous amount and have a higher higher cost of living.
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    (Original post by jape)
    https://capx.co/yes-theres-a-problem...heyre-too-low/

    I know there are a lot of people who get the trains. Thoughts?
    I think travel should become an essential right in the future and I think it will.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Who are you again?

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    Someone who has seen enough of your posts to determine you're completely driven by useless ideology.

    Increased price of transport will reduce the amount of people available for work and damage the environment / economy, not to mention prevent poor people from travelling.
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    (Original post by Yaboi)
    Why do we even pay tax and national insurance in this country

    we get paid barely anything compared to other first world nations yet taxed a ridiculous amount and have a higher higher cost of living.
    NHS, Social care etc...
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    It seems like Tim Worstall is one of those who likes to grab attention by writing controversial and edgy blogs with a right-wing opinion:

    https://capx.co/author/timworstall/

    Look at the titles of his other pieces:
    "Rejoice! Robots are coming for our jobs!"
    "Our lost decade is nothing to worry about"
    "Are we just too efficient when it comes to infrastructure?"
    "Britain's flood defences are biased against the poor - and rightly so"
    "Britain's productivity has fallen - and that's a good thing"

    A typical out-of-touch elitist right-winger who never engages with ordinary working class people.

    The Brexit vote showed how the modern economy is not working for many ordinary Britons who have been left behind and have legitimate concerns about job security, wages and declining public services. What do the likes of Tim Worstall offer them but pseudo-intellectual justifications for why the current order is how it should be.
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    I take the train to school everyday, from my station for a 7 day adult ticket it's £40, frankly I've never purchased a ticket from my station unless I'm heading in the London direction (only 20p extra than buying from within the London zones), if I'm heading in the other direction I usually pre book for a few stations before or after :giggle: I can afford it but it's always delayed/cancelled from my station, and for a small stop (literally the shortest station gap on the entire line) its double the price which I hate so I purchase a 7 day ticket from the station before the one I get off at and only pay £11 a week just to get through barriers. Scammer? Yes. Genius? I'll take the title. Still too expensive? Nah.
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    NHS, Social care etc...
    Pretty bad deal imo.
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    (Original post by Yaboi)
    Pretty bad deal imo.
    We have one of the cheapest and most effective national health services and care services than majority of the first world nations, difference from other first world nations is our system is PUBLIC RUNNED, there is PUBLICALLY FUNDED, PRIVATE RUNNED which is why their wages maybe higher, before brexit our wages was around USA level and well above Germany and France level, so to say we are terrible here is a bit ironic and ignorant.

    Also comparing to America, there is no NHS and health care bills are skyrocketting, Obama tried to calm it down.
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    We have one of the cheapest and most effective national health services and care services than majority of the first world nations, difference from other first world nations is our system is PUBLIC RUNED, there is PUBLICALLY FUNDED, PRIVATE RUNNED which is why their wages maybe higher, before brexit our wages was around USA level and well above Germany and France level, so to say we are terrible here is a bit ironic and ignorant.
    Do you have any proof that pre brexit level our wages were around USA level?

    because I highly doubt that, all European nations besides the swiss get a bad deal imo.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Actually you'll find the railways to be the only major thing where statistically the richer you are the more money you're taking out of the public purse because the users are predominantly the middle class living in the home counties (and obviously the same deal around other urban centres). It's not the poor using the railways, they're already in the cities.

    Oh, and you'll find the royals effectively pay for their own lifestyle with a de facto 85% (temporarily cut to 75%) tax rate (100% tax with 15% returned 2 years later)

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    The same royals who are legally tax exempt?

    The poor less likely to drive as well, so it's probably fair to say that the middle class benefit a lot more from the upkeep of the roads and motorways. Especially in the cases of those who drive to and from their home counties for work, as you yourself mentioned. And considering that the middle class pays a sizeable chunk of income into the country's taxation system, what sort of viable solution puts even more strain on us through a rise in public transport fares? Who will pay those taxes if people just stopped going to work because of ridiculous train fares?
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    (Original post by Yaboi)
    Do you have any proof that pre brexit level our wages were around USA level?

    because I highly doubt that, all European nations besides the swiss get a bad deal imo.
    UK wages * 1.5 (£1 = $1.50 was the average since 2010, now the average is £1 = $1.23) and now take USA healthcare costs and think who is better off, also who has more taxes.
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    (Original post by Abdukazam)
    Someone who has seen enough of your posts to determine you're completely driven by useless ideology.

    Increased price of transport will reduce the amount of people available for work and damage the environment / economy, not to mention prevent poor people from travelling.
    I'm sorry that I don't conform to your world view that most people are too stupid to be able to make their own decisions and so the best thing for us all is to give huge amount to the government so they can run our lives for us, obviously after siphoning off a bit of cash for the civil service. Public funding is the worst form of funding, it's spending somebody elses money on somebody else.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    No that isn't the point, as my examples of Air Passenger Duty and Insurance Premium Tax illustrate. Excise duties are pure taxes. They pay for a part of total government revenue. They don't cover the burden to government of an activity and then provide some cream on top to pay for other activities. That never was the case and motoring lobby are the only people that think that should be the case. Petrol is taxed, not because roads cost money but because petrol, unlike wig powder, has price inelastic demand and is therefore a reliable source of substantial revenue.
    Both ways of putting it are different political representations of the same thing. You are right in that tax money comes in bears no relation to how it is spent. It is just a political trick to tell people that they are getting something for their money.

    NI is the best example of this. Why do we need 2 income taxes in the UK? It's because it allows the government to make people believe they are paying into something worthwhile and make it more politically acceptable to flatten tax rates.

    Taxes are set for political not economic reasons. Tobacco taxes are high because it is seen as bad by the public so it allows him to raise money and be nice at the same time.

    The same is true for fuel. Obviously, the tax is set up to be sold to the public as paying for roads because fuel duty is only paid on the fuel used in road vehicles not all fuel. Like with NI, they don't mind paying for it as much if they feel they are getting something in return.
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    (Original post by Sternumator)
    Both ways of putting it are different political representations of the same thing. You are right in that tax money comes in bears no relation to how it is spent. It is just a political trick to tell people that they are getting something for their money.

    NI is the best example of this. Why do we need 2 income taxes in the UK? It's because it allows the government to make people believe they are paying into something worthwhile and make it more politically acceptable to flatten tax rates.

    Taxes are set for political not economic reasons. Tobacco taxes are high because it is seen as bad by the public so it allows him to raise money and be nice at the same time.

    The same is true for fuel. Obviously, the tax is set up to be sold to the public as paying for roads because fuel duty is only paid on the fuel used in road vehicles not all fuel. Like with NI, they don't mind paying for it as much if they feel they are getting something in return.
    Apply your analysis to Air Passenger Duty and Insurance Premium Tax
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    I think travel should become an essential right in the future and I think it will.
    Transportation is not a human right. It's a service. I'd hate to live in a society so entitled that people believe they deserve train tickets just because they're alive.

    (Original post by ckfeister)
    Also comparing to America, there is no NHS and health care bills are skyrocketting, Obama tried to calm it down.
    By enacting a law which will make it even worse, which everyone in the administration knew from day one would make it worse. The tinfoil hatter deep in my soul even thinks it was supposed to make it worse.
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    (Original post by jape)
    Transportation is not a human right. It's a service. I'd hate to live in a society so entitled that people believe they deserve train tickets just because they're alive.



    By enacting a law which will make it even worse, which everyone in the administration knew from day one would make it worse. The tinfoil hatter deep in my soul even thinks it was supposed to make it worse.
    Your a right wing I'm assuming.
 
 
 
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