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    (Original post by NeverLucky)
    Can you explain St Andrew's to me? Like why does it seem to be so popular especially to Americans? Like I never even heard of it until I started researching universities, it just seems like such a random uni to be popular with Americans :lol:
    (Original post by Murray Edwards Admissions)
    The fact that Prince William went there helped raise its profile in the US, plus it being the home of golf. More importantly, though, it has a liberal arts course that looks a lot like a US undergraduate course and it markets itself heavily in the US.
    Nothing much to add to this.
    (Original post by Christie_xx)
    I think it's cus kate and prince william met there and i think americans are into the royal family lool

    i have an offer from st andrew's but i dont really wanna go there anymore :lol:
    Why not? :/
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    (Original post by Murray Edwards Admissions)
    The fact that Prince William went there helped raise its profile in the US, plus it being the home of golf. More importantly, though, it has a liberal arts course that looks a lot like a US undergraduate course and it markets itself heavily in the US.
    Another example of unexpected consequences.
    Sounds a bit like many smaller boarding school that were on the blink of closing down because of decreased demand from uk students were revived by high demand from international students after Harry Potter boom. (And new wealth in some countries that enabled them to send their kids abroad)
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Here's the raw consolidated data plus a summary sheet
    (be aware it's a large file with nearly 41,000 rows and 4 years worth of data from 2012/13 to 2015/16):
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Original source: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...applications_2

    wolfmoon88
    Thank you.
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    (Original post by NeverLucky)
    Can you explain St Andrew's to me? Like why does it seem to be so popular especially to Americans? Like I never even heard of it until I started researching universities, it just seems like such a random uni to be popular with Americans :lol:
    I think it's popular with Americans for a few reasons - firstly it's just a good uni and they do an extra year on their degrees in which optional modules are done, it's not quite Liberal Arts but it's a bit more similar to it than most other UK unis I guess.
    Secondly it has a lot of tradition and history, in the buildings and in student life, it was founded like 400 years before Durham and is second only to Oxbridge in terms of venerability.
    Thirdly, Prince William went there so I guess some of them are hoping to marry/meet an aristocrat.
    Finally, they seem keen to let Americans and other internationals in as they pay a hugely increased fee - so maybe that has something to do with the amount of Americans there
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    (Original post by k.russell)
    I think it's popular with Americans for a few reasons - firstly it's just a good uni and they do an extra year on their degrees in which optional modules are done, it's not quite Liberal Arts but it's a bit more similar to it than most other UK unis I guess.
    Secondly it has a lot of tradition and history, in the buildings and in student life, it was founded like 400 years before Durham and is second only to Oxbridge in terms of venerability.
    Thirdly, Prince William went there so I guess some of them are hoping to marry/meet an aristocrat.
    Finally, they seem keen to let Americans and other internationals in as they pay a hugely increased fee - so maybe that has something to do with the amount of Americans there
    That's not unique to St.Andrews. All universities charge hugely increased fees to internationals. Most of us had been thinking some universities are kee to admit international applicants because of money they'd bring, but the recent conversation with threeportdrift a few days ago somewhere in this forum made us realised it's a myth. Apparently international students cost universities much more than home students because they tend to require more care and legal costs. In fact, the extra charge doesn't quite cover the actual cost often.
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    (Original post by k.russell)
    Finally, they seem keen to let Americans and other internationals in as they pay a hugely increased fee
    (Original post by vincrows)
    Apparently international students cost universities much more than home students because they tend to require more care and legal costs. In fact, the extra charge doesn't quite cover the actual cost often.
    I wouldn't like to suggest there was no margin made in Overseas fees, but their administrative costs, are on average generally higher. But Overseas student fees are much more aligned to 'real costs' of offering the degree course, whereas (brace yourselves TSR) the 9k fees don't come close to covering what it costs to teach a student. The common story is to calculate contact hours, add a bit for marking time, etc and wonder why the Arts course is costing so much for 4 hours contact per week. What folks are not taking into account is the £10m hall of residence they live in, its build costs, maintenance, refurb every few years, etc and the 10 of them the University owns, the lecture theatres, classrooms, labs, sports fields, libraries, IT suites etc and all the staff required to run them, beyond the frontline teaching staff etc etc etc.

    It would be impossible to charge a true cost to students, the 'who uses what' would be far too complex, and anyway, the Govt has forcibly capped UK and therefor EU fees, at a rate well below break even. Overseas student fees are much more like true cost-ish, but also sometimes, depending on the popularity of the University and course, are market rate based, ie what people will pay.

    Student fee income is only one part of the equation though, there's also research income, and also costs, and they share many facilities, so the boundaries of who is costing what are blurred. And at Cambridge and other older universities, there are often endowment incomes to consider (which legally can only be the interest off the top of the pot of money, they aren't allowed to spend the actual capital sum).

    If anyone wants a sense of how Universities balance their books and how significant student fee income is - this document might help some (can't upload it as it's too large)

    http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/poli...-explained.pdf
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    I wouldn't like to suggest there was no margin made in Overseas fees, but their administrative costs, are on average generally higher. But Overseas student fees are much more aligned to 'real costs' of offering the degree course, whereas (brace yourselves TSR) the 9k fees don't come close to covering what it costs to teach a student. The common story is to calculate contact hours, add a bit for marking time, etc and wonder why the Arts course is costing so much for 4 hours contact per week. What folks are not taking into account is the £10m hall of residence they live in, its build costs, maintenance, refurb every few years, etc and the 10 of them the University owns, the lecture theatres, classrooms, labs, sports fields, libraries, IT suites etc and all the staff required to run them, beyond the frontline teaching staff etc etc etc.

    It would be impossible to charge a true cost to students, the 'who uses what' would be far too complex, and anyway, the Govt has forcibly capped UK and therefor EU fees, at a rate well below break even. Overseas student fees are much more like true cost-ish, but also sometimes, depending on the popularity of the University and course, are market rate based, ie what people will pay.

    Student fee income is only one part of the equation though, there's also research income, and also costs, and they share many facilities, so the boundaries of who is costing what are blurred. And at Cambridge and other older universities, there are often endowment incomes to consider (which legally can only be the interest off the top of the pot of money, they aren't allowed to spend the actual capital sum).

    If anyone wants a sense of how Universities balance their books and how significant student fee income is - this document might help some (can't upload it as it's too large)

    http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/poli...-explained.pdf
    Thank you, again. Your insight into behind-the-scenes is always appreciated.

    I knew the difference between uk students fees and international fees is mainly because the government (= tax payers) gives universities subsidies for home students, but not for international (excl. EU) students, but what I found most eye-opening and interesting in our conversation earlier was that universities often face legal challenges from overseas students (particularly from a certain country/countries) for not giving them grades/classes they expect.
    Legal charges are almost always extravagant, a few students taking such an action can easily blow up their budgeting......
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      Vincrows,
      Which 'certain country/countries' make legal challenges?
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      All is quiet on the Western front it seems...
      Good luck to everyone pestering today 😂
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      (Original post by wolfmoon88)
      Answer is most likely no because you are past the 2 week add/drop period for Cambridge as a UCAS choice. Unless you want to withdraw all your choices and go in UCAS Extra (which is not recommended), I don't think you can add another choice. If you still have choices left in your UCAS application, you can still add choices after the Jan 15th deadline, but universities don't guarantee equal consideration. You can still be considered though.
      Ok thanks, doesn't seem like it'll be possible then.
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      (Original post by eg09)
      Ok thanks, doesn't seem like it'll be possible then.
      Correct. And is a reason why some applicants leave their 5th UCAS choice spare until after the Oxbridge decisions arrive.
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      (Original post by Bunratty)
      Vincrows,
      Which 'certain country/countries' make legal challenges?
      No university will publically answer that question, because of the bad press it would give re bias, discrimination etc etc by those that would purposely distort the facts. Suffice to say a large proportion of students who have made a significant financial investment, and who have made significant educational, linguistic and cultural changes to come and study and live in the West and to whom 'face' is a significant cultural concept and failure is not acceptable.
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      is anyone else holding an open offer by any chance? if so, which is your underwritten college?
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      Finally heard back from Selwyn- rejection
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      I finally heard back from Selwyn too and I'm rejected aswell 😊

      Posted from TSR Mobile
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      (Original post by wolfmoon88)
      Nothing much to add to this.


      Why not? :/
      The course is 4 years long and I prefer the other unis I've applied to nothing against St. Andrews lool, just realised how harsh I sounded :rofl:
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      (Original post by Christie_xx)
      The course is 4 years long and I prefer the other unis I've applied to nothing against St. Andrews lool, just realised how harsh I sounded :rofl:
      Okay that's fair

      *Smile- Nat King Cole*

      Spoiler:
      Show
      it's fine :rofl:




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      (Original post by Alvarezd1)
      Finally heard back from Selwyn- rejection
      (Original post by Emma73737)
      I finally heard back from Selwyn too and I'm rejected aswell 😊

      Posted from TSR Mobile
      Sorry to hear... Hopefully some good news will come from Selwyn soon
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      (Original post by Alvarezd1)
      Finally heard back from Selwyn- rejection
      Ahh same unfortunately. 😔 More upset that I was dragged down to Cambridge again and wasted my parents money only to be rejected.

      Commiserations to you both. Onwards and upwards I guess!
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      (Original post by Alvarezd1)
      Finally heard back from Selwyn- rejection
      (Original post by Emma73737)
      I finally heard back from Selwyn too and I'm rejected aswell 😊

      Posted from TSR Mobile
      (Original post by Gold-Confetti)
      Ahh same unfortunately. 😔 More upset that I was dragged down to Cambridge again and wasted my parents money only to be rejected.

      Commiserations to you both. Onwards and upwards I guess!
      :console: so sorry guys

      Wish you all luck in further applications!

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