Jeremy Corbyn Popularity Sinks To 14% Watch

jape
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http://uk.businessinsider.com/these-...isaster-2017-1

How long until Labour actually dies? Full on ceases to be the second party? I honestly think if Nuttall can pull the Kippers together Labour will cease to exist in any meaningful way after the 2020 election. As long as Labour keeps electing retrograde commies as leaders, anyway.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Better a weakened Labour that fights for leftist values, than a stronger Labour which is just a Tory party painted red.
If it's that weak, then it won't matter what it fights for because it can't possibly achieve anything.
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meenu89
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Don't worry, Abbott, McDonnell and others will not be satisfied until it sinks further.
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jape
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Better a weakened Labour that fights for leftist values, than a stronger Labour which is just a Tory party painted red.
(Original post by Mathemagicien)
And if its that morally corrupt, then it won't matter how strong it is because it won't bother fighting for anything worthwhile.
You're going to adore a Britain where your choices are Prime Minister Michael Gove (I'm still hoping for his comeback) or Prime Minister Douglas Carswell.
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Plagioclase
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Better a weakened Labour that fights for leftist values, than a stronger Labour which is just a Tory party painted red.
I feel like there has to be somewhere in-between though. Whilst I think Corbyn is a great guy and I totally respect the fact that the media and establishment is grossly biased against him, the fact of the matter is that Labour is falling into irrelevancy under him. I would have totally agreed with you a year ago, but it's just ridiculous now.
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jape
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
The left can't win through democracy anyway; the best we can hope for, is Labour inspiring a revolution.
That's pretty inspiring. People see through my failed totalitarian ideology, so rather than trying to convince them I'm just going to pray for jackboots and firing squads.
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Plagioclase
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
The "somewhere in-between" isn't left-wing enough. Labour should be tapping into the wave of anti-establishment feeling, not trying to occupy the middle ground which everyone is sick of.
Yes, but they're not, are they? Say what you want about the right but they've done an absolutely spectacular job of convincing the apparently mindless British population that they genuinely care about them whereas Labour might as well not exist at the moment.
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topdawgent
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We always have Chuka Umunna who in the near future will probably end up as more of a populist agenda than the tories can ever dream of having.

The tories don't seem to realise that their politics is largely bland and empty, at least Corbyn stands for something as opposed to continued austerity, risky gambles and walking on the edge of the cliff.
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jape
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(Original post by topdawgent)
We always have Chuka Umunna who in the near future will probably end up as more of a populist agenda than the tories can ever dream of having.

The tories don't seem to realise that their politics is largely bland and empty, at least Corbyn stands for something as opposed to continued austerity, risky gambles and walking on the edge of the cliff.
Conservatives don't support populism. It's right there in the name - they're conservative. They tend to like tradition and slow, gradual reform rather than the slurry of activity you get with populists.

Also, this at least Corbyn stands for something shtick has got to die. Pol Pot stood for something too. People don't like Pol Pot. Because what he stood for was special trees for smashing babies to death against. Standing for something isn't enough. People see that Corbyn stands for something, they see what he stands for, and they recoil from him.
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Plagioclase
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Moving back to the centre isn't going to convince people they want change...
That is debatable but what is absolutely, 100% crystal clear is that nothing is going to happen under Corbyn. It may be unfair, but the fact of the matter is that a Labour Party under Corbyn is unelectable.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
The "somewhere in-between" isn't left-wing enough. Labour should be tapping into the wave of anti-establishment feeling, not trying to occupy the middle ground which everyone is sick of.
Do you not think that :

1. "Anti-establishment feeling" is as likely, if not more so to tend toward the right than the left. Hence Ukip, hence Brexit?

2,Most people aren't sick of the middle ground. That's why, by definition, it's the middle ground. You might be sick of it, and a few other people that you know - but millions of people in Britain aren't.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by topdawgent)
We always have Chuka Umunna who in the near future will probably end up as more of a populist agenda than the tories can ever dream of having.

The tories don't seem to realise that their politics is largely bland and empty, at least Corbyn stands for something as opposed to continued austerity, risky gambles and walking on the edge of the cliff.
I don't mind Chuka too much, but he is currently as divisive as Corbyn. The people with the clout in Labour at the moment hate Blairites more than Tories, and Chuka is as Blaritie as they come. Putting him in would pretty much guarantee the party splitting up just as much as Corbyn currently is.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Plagioclase)
That is debatable but what is absolutely, 100% crystal clear is that nothing is going to happen under Corbyn. It may be unfair, but the fact of the matter is that a Labour Party under Corbyn is unelectable.
Not necessarily so.
There's a fair chance that Labour might disappear as a major party.
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Wōden
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
The left can't win through democracy anyway; the best we can hope for, is Labour inspiring a revolution.
:rofl:

You need tough and armed working class men to start a proper revolution. You don't have many of them in the Labour party anymore. You have soft, middle class, gender non-conformist, hipsters who have an aversion to guns. What are you going to do, surround parliament and barrage it with vegan burgers? Or maybe you could bore the current government to death with one of Jeremy Corbyn's dull speeches.
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Plagioclase
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Not necessarily so.
There's a fair chance that Labour might disappear as a major party.
I don't think the Labour Party is going to disappear as a major party because I think their history as an established party will give them enough momentum to stay alive until party members realise that their party is undergoing existential risk.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Plagioclase)
I don't think the Labour Party is going to disappear as a major party because I think their history as an established party will give them enough momentum to stay alive until party members realise that their party is undergoing existential risk.
Well, that's what everyone thought about the Liberals, and they're no longer a major party.

It also doesn't make a huge amount of difference what the members think, when Momentum and the hard-left rabble-rousers effectively have control of the party. People from Labour have been openly saying that they're not particularly interested in winning, and have installed Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott at the top. If that's not existential risk, what is?
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Better a weakened Labour that fights for leftist values, than a stronger Labour which is just a Tory party painted red.
Labour was never 'tory' they adopted moderate 'Tory' polices which is better than giving a free pass to the Tories who are moving even further right. What's the point in fighting for 'leftist values' when you'll never win? Why not learn the lessons from New Labour and take leftist values to create progressive policies? How about you consider the state of the country if Labour hadn't been in power from 97-2010. It's better to adopt moderate Tory policies than enable them to create their own policies.
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Plagioclase
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Well, that's what everyone thought about the Liberals, and they're no longer a major party.

It also doesn't make a huge amount of difference what the members think, when Momentum and the hard-left rabble-rousers effectively have control of the party. People from Labour have been openly saying that they're not particularly interested in winning, and have installed Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott at the top. If that's not existential risk, what is?
Well, I have to have hope for Labour because the prospect of a UK being ruled by Tyranny-by-Majority (which really seems to be the case at the moment) is too depressing to bear. I can leave the country if I need to but it would be too tragic for those who can't.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Its not uniformly nor overwhelmingly right-wing. Many people are sick of foreign companies not paying their taxes, and globalisation in general.
Yet millions of people in the millenial demographic are ready to go out to bat for the EU.

This is the contradiction that used to encumber the Tories, and now troubles everyone - especially Labour. The country is split almost down the middle on Europe, but at the same time, apparently doesn't like "globalisation". You can't have it both ways. The EU is the most elitist, pro-globalisation cabal that there is. Free movement and single market = globalisation. If you're pro-EU, you can't be anti-globalisation. If you're anti-globalisation, you can't be pro-EU.



I do not believe this is so.
Then you're trying to argue that the middle ground is in fact a small majority, rather than a large percentage of the electorate. If that's what you believe, then fair enough - but that's Corbynite election strategy right there.
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Josb
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(Original post by jape)
http://uk.businessinsider.com/these-...isaster-2017-1

How long until Labour actually dies? Full on ceases to be the second party? I honestly think if Nuttall can pull the Kippers together Labour will cease to exist in any meaningful way after the 2020 election. As long as Labour keeps electing retrograde commies as leaders, anyway.
Excellent.
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