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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Do you not think that :

    1. "Anti-establishment feeling" is as likely, if not more so to tend toward the right than the left. Hence Ukip, hence Brexit?
    Its not uniformly nor overwhelmingly right-wing. Many people are sick of foreign companies not paying their taxes, and globalisation in general.

    2,Most people aren't sick of the middle ground. That's why, by definition, it's the middle ground. You might be sick of it, and a few other people that you know - but millions of people in Britain aren't.
    I do not believe this is so.
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    :rofl:

    You need tough and armed working class men to start a proper revolution. You don't have many of them in the Labour party anymore. You have soft, middle class, gender non-conformist, hipsters who have an aversion to guns. What are you going to do, surround parliament and barrage it with vegan burgers? Or maybe you could bore the current government to death with one of Jeremy Corbyn's dull speeches.
    This is valid criticism. Someone more hardline than Corbyn would be better.

    Still, I guess vegans make good cannon fodder...
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I don't think the Labour Party is going to disappear as a major party because I think their history as an established party will give them enough momentum to stay alive until party members realise that their party is undergoing existential risk.
    Well, that's what everyone thought about the Liberals, and they're no longer a major party.

    It also doesn't make a huge amount of difference what the members think, when Momentum and the hard-left rabble-rousers effectively have control of the party. People from Labour have been openly saying that they're not particularly interested in winning, and have installed Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott at the top. If that's not existential risk, what is?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Better a weakened Labour that fights for leftist values, than a stronger Labour which is just a Tory party painted red.
    Labour was never 'tory' they adopted moderate 'Tory' polices which is better than giving a free pass to the Tories who are moving even further right. What's the point in fighting for 'leftist values' when you'll never win? Why not learn the lessons from New Labour and take leftist values to create progressive policies? How about you consider the state of the country if Labour hadn't been in power from 97-2010. It's better to adopt moderate Tory policies than enable them to create their own policies.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Well, that's what everyone thought about the Liberals, and they're no longer a major party.

    It also doesn't make a huge amount of difference what the members think, when Momentum and the hard-left rabble-rousers effectively have control of the party. People from Labour have been openly saying that they're not particularly interested in winning, and have installed Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott at the top. If that's not existential risk, what is?
    Well, I have to have hope for Labour because the prospect of a UK being ruled by Tyranny-by-Majority (which really seems to be the case at the moment) is too depressing to bear. I can leave the country if I need to but it would be too tragic for those who can't.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Its not uniformly nor overwhelmingly right-wing. Many people are sick of foreign companies not paying their taxes, and globalisation in general.
    Yet millions of people in the millenial demographic are ready to go out to bat for the EU.

    This is the contradiction that used to encumber the Tories, and now troubles everyone - especially Labour. The country is split almost down the middle on Europe, but at the same time, apparently doesn't like "globalisation". You can't have it both ways. The EU is the most elitist, pro-globalisation cabal that there is. Free movement and single market = globalisation. If you're pro-EU, you can't be anti-globalisation. If you're anti-globalisation, you can't be pro-EU.



    I do not believe this is so.
    Then you're trying to argue that the middle ground is in fact a small majority, rather than a large percentage of the electorate. If that's what you believe, then fair enough - but that's Corbynite election strategy right there.
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    (Original post by jape)
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/these-...isaster-2017-1

    How long until Labour actually dies? Full on ceases to be the second party? I honestly think if Nuttall can pull the Kippers together Labour will cease to exist in any meaningful way after the 2020 election. As long as Labour keeps electing retrograde commies as leaders, anyway.
    Excellent.
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    Im shocked he even has 1% popularity let alone 14%!

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    (Original post by jape)
    Conservatives don't support populism. It's right there in the name - they're conservative. They tend to like tradition and slow, gradual reform rather than the slurry of activity you get with populists.

    Also, this at least Corbyn stands for something shtick has got to die. Pol Pot stood for something too. People don't like Pol Pot. Because what he stood for was special trees for smashing babies to death against. Standing for something isn't enough. People see that Corbyn stands for something, they see what he stands for, and they recoil from him.
    Im not really talking about the traditional populism, more like the kind of populism that allowed Trump to win.

    Corbyn does have some populist agendas, he's got a very socialist leftist agenda. He's not just that he stands for something. But i think given the bland alternative in the form of the tories, i think he does have great vision. Yes, he's far from perfect and delusional at times.

    Either way i am leaning towards the right wing labour politics, thats the only branch that has some future.
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    Well shut up, close the door, and call me Darcey - even more evidence the Labour party will be dead once the next election rolls around. What on Earth have you done to yourselves, liberals?

    I for one can't wait for the Tory/UKIP battle of 2020. A win-win all round, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Well, I have to have hope for Labour because the prospect of a UK being ruled by Tyranny-by-Majority (which really seems to be the case at the moment) is to depressing to bear. I can leave the country if I need to but it would be too tragic for those who can't.
    Labour is currently ruled by tyranny by majority.

    The craziest, most absurd thing about the whole situation is that it was so utterly predictable. If you go back on youtube and watch the election coverage from 2015 - the morning after Cameron won his majority, there are a series of post-mortems with prominent Labour figures, from Mandelson to Alistair Campbell to Margaret Beckett to John Reid. When asked "where does Labour go now?" They all said exactly the same things: -

    "Labour has to go away and re-think things, and come back with a centre-ground, electable candidate."
    "Have a measured analysis of what went wrong."
    "Don't blame the media, or blame the electorate."
    "Look to the newest generation"

    Yet they went off and did exactly the opposite to what all the people who had won elections with Labour had said, and came back with the worst possible solution and the worst possible candidate with the worst possible direction.

    At 10.20am on Friday 8th May on BBC, John Reid is interviewed by Andrew Neil and gives his analysis of where Labour went wrong. He goes on, months before Corbyn or any of the what happened, to predict exactly would and has happened. The most telling thing is that he says something along the lines of: "We seem to have shifted direction....the public perceived us to be on the wrong side of every major argument....if the party wants to go that way - fine, but what's the point in 'having your party back', if no-one is following it?"

    A number of people, a year and a half ago, the day after Cameron won, predicted pretty accurately what would happen if Labour went further to the left.

    Even more telling - Neil interviews Ken Livingstone, who claims that Labour lost as they did not move far enough to the left in the 2015 GE, and that they did not take a strong enough stand against austerity. Following his rationale, Corbyn should be absolutely killing it now.
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    Sink implies it was high in the first place, amongst the general population. it may have reduced but sink is over-dramatising it.
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    I'm not surprised. People don't like boring, high-and-mighty, damp communist a-holes. He's a relic from an outdated socialist era and doesn't seem to care that everyone outside his edgy Corbyn Club wants him to go away and groan about capitalism in another room where they don't have to see or hear him.
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    Why are people so anti corbyn?
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    Why are people so anti corbyn?
    He's representative of an utterly failed political philosophy, but his continued appearance gives succor to those few who believe in it.

    It's pretty much proven by reality that Marxism is an utterly failed system, and there exists not one successful model of it in the world. In fact, every country that has tried it is pretty much a smoking ruin or has rejected it utterly. Yet its adherents claim that it's the other systems such as free-market capitalism that are failed.
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    It's just odd that his popularity is so low yet he won leadership twice
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    Why are people so anti corbyn?
    I'm anti-Corbyn because he wants to tax my tiny income to death, because he wants to run the economy top-down, because he wants to spend the country into bankruptcy, because he is friendly with groups like Hezbollah and the IRA (terrorist organisations). Plus, he's just incompetent. Just really bad at being a senior politician. If you asked me to start working in a mechanic's workshop with no training I'd do about as well as Jeremy Corbyn is doing now.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    It's just odd that his popularity is so low yet he won leadership twice
    Because militants do not represent the electorate.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    It's just odd that his popularity is so low yet he won leadership twice
    Who would have thought, Labour membership =/= Consensus of general population.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    It's just odd that his popularity is so low yet he won leadership twice
    Yes, it's odd that ~100,000 political activists aren't of the same mindset as ~30,000,000 voters...
 
 
 
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