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    (Original post by Josb)
    Because militants do not represent the electorate.
    (Original post by citibankrec)
    Who would have thought, Labour membership =/= Consensus of general population.
    Fortunately for the Conservatives, Trots don't understand this. Labour moves to the left and loses big. They assume that it's because they didn't move far enough to the left, and become even more popular. This causes them to claim that it's politics, and the system that is broken, rather than their direction - and the natural resort is to clamour for revolution instead.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The left can't win through democracy anyway; the best we can hope for, is Labour inspiring a revolution.
    If people won't vote for the left, why would they support it in a revolution?
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    In response to the above, I am not pro-corbyn, I just wanted your opinions. I do believe some of his proposed policies are irrational however some of the things he says do make sense. The tories are doing nothing for our economy and with plans to privatise the NHS ect I feel as though a labour government, regardless of who is in leadership is the right way forward in the next G.E. (though corbyn may not be the most appropriate candidate for this)
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    with plans to privatise the NHS ect
    Do they plan that? Prove it.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Do they plan that? Prove it.
    It's pretty clear that the continuous underfunding of the NHS will lead to this
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    "How long until Labour actually dies?" is the funniest thing I've heard all day. Kudos.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    It's pretty clear that the continuous underfunding of the NHS will lead to this
    Don't fall for tabloid and leftist propaganda. As has been said in other threads tonight, the NHS is getting above inflation increases every year.
    If you believe there's a plan, I ask you to prove it. Don't base your thoughts on other people's agendas.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    It's pretty clear that the continuous underfunding of the NHS will lead to this
    Hm. Sounds like a nutty conspiracy theory to me.

    May I ask why you think the Conservatives would do this?
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    If people won't vote for the left, why would they support it in a revolution?
    I'll support basically anything if you jam the business end of an AK-47 into my face.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    In response to the above, I am not pro-corbyn, I just wanted your opinions. I do believe some of his proposed policies are irrational however some of the things he says do make sense. The tories are doing nothing for our economy and with plans to privatise the NHS ect I feel as though a labour government, regardless of who is in leadership is the right way forward in the next G.E. (though corbyn may not be the most appropriate candidate for this)
    Never really understood why privatisation is so bad and why we can never even consider it?

    If it saves money and produces a better result, why not? (Don’t mention the USA, there are other countries in the world which have a higher percentage of privatisation in Europe, Germany for example.)
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    (Original post by jape)
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/these-...isaster-2017-1

    How long until Labour actually dies? Full on ceases to be the second party? I honestly think if Nuttall can pull the Kippers together Labour will cease to exist in any meaningful way after the 2020 election. As long as Labour keeps electing retrograde commies as leaders, anyway.
    Jape, I always felt that you the most left-wing radical on TSR
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    I think that the key problem with Jeremy Corbyn is that he is not actually a good debater in Parliament. I am unimpressed with the strength of his arguments and in particular, his counter arguments, in defense of his socialist policies. I believe that this is why the majority of parliamentary Labour Party are so against him being the leader. Incidentally, I also happen to work in Parliament and have been face-to-face with him for a good couple of hours and was rather unimpressed with his intellectual ability to advance his case. This is a real shame because he fails to do justice to socialism when it is put under the spotlight.

    Its a strange paradox with Corbyn in that he doesn't appear to be a strong charismatic leader but at the same time he has managed to inspire hundreds of thousands to join the Labour Party. Ofcourse a significant proportion of these new members are of the younger generation holding strong socialist views who found somebody who was on their wavelength - someone who connected with the rebellious nature of youth. Unfortunately, Corbyn will have a tremendously difficult time in convincing the key demographic to vote for him - middle England, and this is where the 2020 General Election will be decided.

    In an episode of question time John McDonnell triumphantly expressed that Jeremy Corbyn had created a socialist movement in Britain. The response from Alistair Campbell was interesting when he said, something to the effect of, movements alone do not win general elections. I think time will tell if he is correct - but I certainly dont fancy Labour chances.
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    (Original post by RedManc)
    Jape, I always felt that you the most left-wing radical on TSR
    I've been rumbled! Down with the bourgeoisie!
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Don't fall for tabloid and leftist propaganda. As has been said in other threads tonight, the NHS is getting above inflation increases every year.
    If you believe there's a plan, I ask you to prove it. Don't base your thoughts on other people's agendas.
    I would also say dont be misled by Government when it talks about NHS funding.

    Remember that £10bn for the NHS? the Health Select Committee (Chaired by a tory MP who was a GP herself) investigated the figure and found that it was actually £4bn. see here: https://www.theguardian.com/society/...t-true-say-mps


    “The continued use of the figure of £10bn for the additional health spending up to 2020-21 is not only incorrect but risks giving a false impression that the NHS is awash with cash,” Wollaston and four fellow committee members tell the chancellor in a letter.
    “This figure is often combined with a claim that the government ‘has given the NHS what it asked for’. Again, this claim does not stand up to scrutiny as NHS England spending cannot be seen in isolation from other areas of health spending.”
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      (Original post by Trinculo)
      If people won't vote for the left, why would they support it in a revolution?
      You don't need to be the majority, only a bigger minority than your opposition. People may not like the idea of a leftist state, but would they give up their lives to fight it? Many leftists would give up their lives for their cause, not vice versa.

      (Original post by jape)
      I'll support basically anything if you jam the business end of an AK-47 into my face.
      That's the spirit, citizen!

      (Original post by RedManc)
      Jape, I always felt that you the most left-wing radical on TSR
      Now you mention it, where are all the left-wing radicals on TSR?
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      (Original post by Cravez)
      I think that the key problem with Jeremy Corbyn is that he is not actually a good debater in Parliament. I am unimpressed with the strength of his arguments and in particular, his counter arguments, in defense of his socialist policies. I believe that this is why the majority of parliamentary Labour Party are so against him being the leader. Incidentally, I also happen to work in Parliament and have been face-to-face with him for a good couple of hours and was rather unimpressed with his intellectual ability to advance his case. This is a real shame because he fails to do justice to socialism when it is put under the spotlight.

      Its a strange paradox with Corbyn in that he doesn't appear to be a strong charismatic leader but at the same time he has managed to inspire hundreds of thousands to join the Labour Party. Ofcourse a significant proportion of these new members are of the younger generation holding strong socialist views who found somebody who was on their wavelength - someone who connected with the rebellious nature of youth. Unfortunately, Corbyn will have a tremendously difficult time in convincing the key demographic to vote for him - middle England, and this is where the 2020 General Election will be decided.

      In an episode of question time John McDonnell triumphantly expressed that Jeremy Corbyn had created a socialist movement in Britain. The response from Alistair Campbell was interesting when he said, something to the effect of, movements alone do not win general elections. I think time will tell if he is correct - but I certainly dont fancy Labour chances.
      Well, I think the key problem with Corbyn i that for every deluded young Trot he attracts to the cause, his brainless VI Form politics turn three previous-Labour voters away from them. He's attracting small numbers of internet zealots to his cause, but losing many more people.

      It's all going to turn on how zealous and how fanatical the Corbynistas really are. If they're mad enough to see it through to the bitter end, and actually not care about winning, but just have the movement and try and create change - then they will be utterly destroyed at the polls and sink the Labour Party for generations. If, however, they see sense and let the moderates back in, then they'll be ok.
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      (Original post by Mathemagicien)
      You don't need to be the majority, only a bigger minority than your opposition. People may not like the idea of a leftist state, but would they give up their lives to fight it? Many leftists would give up their lives for their cause, not vice versa.
      Lol, you're actually advocating violent insurrection.
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        (Original post by Trinculo)
        Lol, you're actually advocating violent insurrection.
        No, I am not advocating violent insurrection because that would require me to support the idea, which I do not.

        But historically, it has been the best way of introducing socialist governments.
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        (Original post by Mathemagicien)
        No, I am not advocating violent insurrection because that would require me to support the idea, which I do not.

        But historically, it has been the best way of introducing socialist governments.
        Absolutely.

        And the main problem with them is that violence and oppression are the only way to keep them in power - because no-one likes the reality of living in socialist states.
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        (Original post by jape)
        http://uk.businessinsider.com/these-...isaster-2017-1

        How long until Labour actually dies? Full on ceases to be the second party? I honestly think if Nuttall can pull the Kippers together Labour will cease to exist in any meaningful way after the 2020 election. As long as Labour keeps electing retrograde commies as leaders, anyway.


        The left sucks anywya
       
       
       
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