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Jeremy Corbyn Popularity Sinks To 14% watch

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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    It's pretty clear that the continuous underfunding of the NHS will lead to this
    Hm. Sounds like a nutty conspiracy theory to me.

    May I ask why you think the Conservatives would do this?
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    If people won't vote for the left, why would they support it in a revolution?
    I'll support basically anything if you jam the business end of an AK-47 into my face.
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    (Original post by bex.anne)
    In response to the above, I am not pro-corbyn, I just wanted your opinions. I do believe some of his proposed policies are irrational however some of the things he says do make sense. The tories are doing nothing for our economy and with plans to privatise the NHS ect I feel as though a labour government, regardless of who is in leadership is the right way forward in the next G.E. (though corbyn may not be the most appropriate candidate for this)
    Never really understood why privatisation is so bad and why we can never even consider it?

    If it saves money and produces a better result, why not? (Don’t mention the USA, there are other countries in the world which have a higher percentage of privatisation in Europe, Germany for example.)
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    (Original post by jape)
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/these-...isaster-2017-1

    How long until Labour actually dies? Full on ceases to be the second party? I honestly think if Nuttall can pull the Kippers together Labour will cease to exist in any meaningful way after the 2020 election. As long as Labour keeps electing retrograde commies as leaders, anyway.
    Jape, I always felt that you the most left-wing radical on TSR
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    I think that the key problem with Jeremy Corbyn is that he is not actually a good debater in Parliament. I am unimpressed with the strength of his arguments and in particular, his counter arguments, in defense of his socialist policies. I believe that this is why the majority of parliamentary Labour Party are so against him being the leader. Incidentally, I also happen to work in Parliament and have been face-to-face with him for a good couple of hours and was rather unimpressed with his intellectual ability to advance his case. This is a real shame because he fails to do justice to socialism when it is put under the spotlight.

    Its a strange paradox with Corbyn in that he doesn't appear to be a strong charismatic leader but at the same time he has managed to inspire hundreds of thousands to join the Labour Party. Ofcourse a significant proportion of these new members are of the younger generation holding strong socialist views who found somebody who was on their wavelength - someone who connected with the rebellious nature of youth. Unfortunately, Corbyn will have a tremendously difficult time in convincing the key demographic to vote for him - middle England, and this is where the 2020 General Election will be decided.

    In an episode of question time John McDonnell triumphantly expressed that Jeremy Corbyn had created a socialist movement in Britain. The response from Alistair Campbell was interesting when he said, something to the effect of, movements alone do not win general elections. I think time will tell if he is correct - but I certainly dont fancy Labour chances.
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    (Original post by RedManc)
    Jape, I always felt that you the most left-wing radical on TSR
    I've been rumbled! Down with the bourgeoisie!
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Don't fall for tabloid and leftist propaganda. As has been said in other threads tonight, the NHS is getting above inflation increases every year.
    If you believe there's a plan, I ask you to prove it. Don't base your thoughts on other people's agendas.
    I would also say dont be misled by Government when it talks about NHS funding.

    Remember that £10bn for the NHS? the Health Select Committee (Chaired by a tory MP who was a GP herself) investigated the figure and found that it was actually £4bn. see here: https://www.theguardian.com/society/...t-true-say-mps


    “The continued use of the figure of £10bn for the additional health spending up to 2020-21 is not only incorrect but risks giving a false impression that the NHS is awash with cash,” Wollaston and four fellow committee members tell the chancellor in a letter.
    “This figure is often combined with a claim that the government ‘has given the NHS what it asked for’. Again, this claim does not stand up to scrutiny as NHS England spending cannot be seen in isolation from other areas of health spending.”
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    (Original post by Cravez)
    I think that the key problem with Jeremy Corbyn is that he is not actually a good debater in Parliament. I am unimpressed with the strength of his arguments and in particular, his counter arguments, in defense of his socialist policies. I believe that this is why the majority of parliamentary Labour Party are so against him being the leader. Incidentally, I also happen to work in Parliament and have been face-to-face with him for a good couple of hours and was rather unimpressed with his intellectual ability to advance his case. This is a real shame because he fails to do justice to socialism when it is put under the spotlight.

    Its a strange paradox with Corbyn in that he doesn't appear to be a strong charismatic leader but at the same time he has managed to inspire hundreds of thousands to join the Labour Party. Ofcourse a significant proportion of these new members are of the younger generation holding strong socialist views who found somebody who was on their wavelength - someone who connected with the rebellious nature of youth. Unfortunately, Corbyn will have a tremendously difficult time in convincing the key demographic to vote for him - middle England, and this is where the 2020 General Election will be decided.

    In an episode of question time John McDonnell triumphantly expressed that Jeremy Corbyn had created a socialist movement in Britain. The response from Alistair Campbell was interesting when he said, something to the effect of, movements alone do not win general elections. I think time will tell if he is correct - but I certainly dont fancy Labour chances.
    Well, I think the key problem with Corbyn i that for every deluded young Trot he attracts to the cause, his brainless VI Form politics turn three previous-Labour voters away from them. He's attracting small numbers of internet zealots to his cause, but losing many more people.

    It's all going to turn on how zealous and how fanatical the Corbynistas really are. If they're mad enough to see it through to the bitter end, and actually not care about winning, but just have the movement and try and create change - then they will be utterly destroyed at the polls and sink the Labour Party for generations. If, however, they see sense and let the moderates back in, then they'll be ok.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    You don't need to be the majority, only a bigger minority than your opposition. People may not like the idea of a leftist state, but would they give up their lives to fight it? Many leftists would give up their lives for their cause, not vice versa.
    Lol, you're actually advocating violent insurrection.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    No, I am not advocating violent insurrection because that would require me to support the idea, which I do not.

    But historically, it has been the best way of introducing socialist governments.
    Absolutely.

    And the main problem with them is that violence and oppression are the only way to keep them in power - because no-one likes the reality of living in socialist states.
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    (Original post by jape)
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/these-...isaster-2017-1

    How long until Labour actually dies? Full on ceases to be the second party? I honestly think if Nuttall can pull the Kippers together Labour will cease to exist in any meaningful way after the 2020 election. As long as Labour keeps electing retrograde commies as leaders, anyway.


    The left sucks anywya
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    What are you going to do, surround parliament and barrage it with vegan burgers?
    Have you seen those burgers? I wouldn't want to be hit by one, God knows what's in them.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Have you seen those burgers? I wouldn't want to be hit by one, God knows what's in them.
    Crow's droppings and daddy issues.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Better a weakened Labour that fights for leftist values, than a stronger Labour which is just a Tory party painted red.
    And the prevalence of this attitude is the very reason that the right is so dominant: so much of the left is so hell bent on ideological purity they don't even try to get elected.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Hm. Sounds like a nutty conspiracy theory to me.

    May I ask why you think the Conservatives would do this?
    It's no secret that the conservatives have a general distaste of the public sector and support privatisation over nationalisation. Leaked memos from Thatcher's government recently showed that she had wanted to privatise the NHS but considered it too politically unpopular a move at the time.

    Then we consider the fact that through PFIs, private firms are becoming a more permanent part of the NHS.

    That's not so much a conspiracy, as general knowledge...
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Don't fall for tabloid and leftist propaganda. nflation increases every year.
    If you believe there's a plan, I ask you to prove it. Don't base your thoughts on other people's agendas.
    Ah yes our well known leftist press...
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It's no secret that the conservatives have a general distaste of the public sector and support privatisation over nationalisation. Leaked memos from Thatcher's government recently showed that she had wanted to privatise the NHS but considered it too politically unpopular a move at the time.

    Then we consider the fact that through PFIs, private firms are becoming a more permanent part of the NHS.

    That's not so much a conspiracy, as general knowledge...
    Remember who it was that was so obsessed with PFIs? It's an easy way to spend a lot of money but keep it off the books, allows a centre left government that wants to spend more than the country wants to spend to do hide the debt they're creating.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Ah yes our well known leftist press...
    The online and TV news media is leftist. Nobody reads physical newspapers, and they're the only parts of the media that are conservative.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Remember who it was that was so obsessed with PFIs? It's an easy way to spend a lot of money but keep it off the books, allows a centre left government that wants to spend more than the country wants to spend to do hide the debt they're creating.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    This is such a weak argument.
    I have always criticised Blair for PFIs so why cannot I criticise the conservatives for the same thing?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The "somewhere in-between" isn't left-wing enough. Labour should be tapping into the wave of anti-establishment feeling, not trying to occupy the middle ground which everyone is sick of.
    socialists are not anti -establishment , they just want to replace existing establishments with their own apparat complete with appartchiks and nomenklatura
 
 
 
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