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    It takes a lot of energy to argue with hard-right and so-called alt-right people online, and most of the time your efforts are wasted because they either won't acknowledge your post, or they will dismiss it out of hand as lies. After a short time most people give up. They are a (very) vocal minority who are best ignored.

    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    Because this is the only place right wing kids can spout off without being social outcasts, and the rest of us got bored/fed up and moved on :sadnod:
    Yer.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    As ChaoticButterfly says, common sense is often wrong. Its often right, too, but my point is that you shouldn't rely on it. There are many rigorous arguments to be had to support any view; go out and find them.
    I agree.

    But so much of what the left espouses is against common sense, that was my point.

    The right? Not so much.

    I don't know why that should be, but if I were to hazard a guess I would probably posit that it is because the left has such an unrealistic and idealistic view of human nature. The right just recognises humanity for what it is.
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    It's the internet, Right wing people like debating on platforms that have no influence whatsoever lmao.
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    (Original post by Sakisaka)
    It's the internet, Right wing people like debating on platforms that have no influence whatsoever lmao.
    Are you for real?

    Right wing people are shaping the western world as we watch. Brexit, Trump, Italy, in a couple of months the Netherlands and France.

    It is the left that is ******* in the wind.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    I wonder how much the removal of negs coincided with the increase of right-wing thought (or, as I call it, Wrongthink).
    Ha ha ha!

    Go the whole hog, call it "Thoughtcrime."

    Seriously, the abolition of negging probably did have an effect. I reckon the majority, perhaps the significant majority of TSR users tend to the left, but they seem to be largely apathetic. Far less vocal than the right, as we have discussed.

    The neg system allowed them to passive aggressively attack right wing viewpoints they disagreed with, without having to actually engage that poster in debate.

    You still see the phenomenon with positive reps. You only have to make a virtue signalling post saying something trite like "you can't say all Muslims are terrorists!" to get about 35 positive reps.
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    It's not altogether surprising; only the pendulum of politics. TSR was for a long time an insufferable SJW hub; it swung too far to the left, sparked a reaction, and has now ostensibly swung too far to the right. History repeats - and what did Engels-Marx say? First as tragedy, then as rotten farce, and Trump/Brexit fit the latter rather neatly. Marx was a little harsh of course, since Napoleon III did in fact restore France to glory at least for a good while and at least domestically before his downfall (coincidentally, in Mexico), but I think it takes some creative imagination to believe the far right can restore the UK and America to greatness. Generally, TSR is not particularly right-wing on specific issues (drug laws, abortion, religion, homosexuality, gun laws, criminal justice, etc) but only on sociopolitical and macroeconomic issues of national identity, culture, gender and the free market, which is clearly only a reaction to the regressive left. Extreme breeds extreme after all.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Did TSR seriously used to be like this? I find it hard to imagine.
    It wasn't utopia, and you still had to put up with a lot of anger and flaming. But there were more cases of threads where some genuine debate was going on, and people were actually really going into the reasoning behind why they supported a view, rather than resorting to pettiness and ad hominems.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Did TSR seriously used to be like this? I find it hard to imagine.
    Ehh, I think the overall standard of debate was probably a bit higher back in the day. I remember there being more users on the extreme ends of the political spectrum as well, or at least a lot more big personalities on both sides who really knew their stuff.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    just left wing, liberal, SJW etc - everything that is a formula for somebody that will flag you for simply expressing your opinions that they don't agree with or like. you know how it is. I even got flagged the other day for "offending potential homeless people"...on the student room. I **** you not.
    It sounds to me like you're out of touch with how moderation works on TSR right now About a year ago, the Community Team (who are paid full time staff based in Brighton) took over handling all post reports and carding. People like me no longer hand out warnings, except in extreme situations. For instance, the other day it was about 3am on a Saturday night, and some troll with a brand new account started posting a gazillion very offensive threads all over TSR. I am allowed to ban someone if that happens because nobody from the CT is likely to be online... maybe not until Monday... and it is a clear cut case. But if, for instance, I came across a post of yours that said 'homeless people are losers who need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps', I would submit a report, just like any other user can, and it would have to wait for the CT to come online and review it on the Monday.

    I have been a moderator since 2009, and before that I was also part of the wider support team through being Secretary General of the MUN and a PS Helper. I know a lot of the CT staff, and I've seen the moderation team change and transform over the years. Some Brighton HQ staff are Labour supporters, but some are Conservative too. As to the moderators on TSR, you can't generalise about us either. We're talking about 60ish people here, and if we put a poll up in the support team forum, I think you'd find that a lot of people would tick the 'indifferent' or 'not all that interested in politics' box, rather than identifying as right or left wing. I certainly haven't met any moderators that would conform to the 'SJW' stereotype. The closest example of that is probably me, and actually - despite the fact that I am a Corbyn supporter - I have a lot of criticisms of the direction that some left wing culture has gone in over the last decade. I think identity politics is a massive problem, and I think that some left wing individuals over-simplify issues, and have very inflexible moral knee jerk reactions to things. Please note the use of 'some'. I think I know one person on the mod team who votes Green, and he's more calm and has more patience than me. So definitely not a 'SJW'.
    The bottom line is that it's very wrong (and also quite funny) to point to one mod - like you did with me - and say 'look... this person is identical to all the other 60 mods on TSR' :p:

    I think your biggest 'problem' is class and culture related, not political. What moderators and the CT share in common is a preference for tact and diplomacy. If you want to say something like "homeless people are stupid ****s" then anybody on the moderation team is going to view that as inflammatory and needlessly harsh. If you want to say "in my opinion, homeless people need to do more to take responsibility for their lives, and the state should stop enabling their problems", I would strongly disagree with you and would personally think that you're an arrogant, ignorant and heartless [insert expletive], but neither myself nor anybody who administrates TSR would warn you for that, because it was communicated diplomatically. Even a mod who was right wing and IDS's biggest fan would have warned for the first example.

    (Original post by Snufkin)
    It takes a lot of energy to argue with hard-right and so-called alt-right people online, and most of the time your efforts are wasted because they either won't acknowledge your post, or they will dismiss it out of hand as lies. After a short time most people give up. They are a (very) vocal minority who are best ignore.
    Basically yes. Actually I think arguing with lots of people from different political backgrounds matches this description. There is no point in arguing with a person who has already made their mind up and who is determined to stick to their guns, come what may. That isn't a discussion, it's a fight. Fighting is exhausting and pointless. It just leads to bad feeling, and people becoming more entrenched. That's why I gave up on debating on TSR many years ago. It used to be the case that you could have a discussion and both parties would come away having been intellectually stimulated, and taught something new. Now showing up for a discussion is just like being a voluntary pinâta for a bunch of angry teens to release their frustration against. No thanks


    (Original post by citibankrec)
    TSR is a big place. A lot of mods have no interest in posting in D&CA. Or in Chat... or wherever else you are. I spent the majority of my TSR membership - both as a user and mod - posting in the Universities forums.

    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Ehh, I think the overall standard of debate was probably a bit higher back in the day. I remember there being more users on the extreme ends of the political spectrum as well, or at least a lot more big personalities on both sides who really knew their stuff.
    Captain Haddock is one of my favourite fictional characters :love: :adore:
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    Basically yes. Actually I think arguing with lots of people from different political backgrounds matches this description. There is no point in arguing with a person who has already made their mind up and who is determined to stick to their guns, come what may. That isn't a discussion, it's a fight. Fighting is exhausting and pointless. It just leads to bad feeling, and people becoming more entrenched. That's why I gave up on debating on TSR many years ago. It used to be the case that you could have a discussion and both parties would come away having been intellectually stimulated, and taught something new. Now showing up for a discussion is just like being a voluntary pinâta for a bunch of angry teens to release their frustration against. No thanks
    Debate on TSR is often fruitless, but I think you're looking back with rose-tinted glasses. Debate hasn't become less productive, you've just out-grown the forum and lost interest in debating the same repeated threads with younger members and with no end in sight. It can sometimes feel like an online version of The Truman Show.
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    Debate on TSR is often fruitless, but I think you're looking back with rose-tinted glasses. Debate hasn't become less productive, you've just out-grown the forum and lost interest in debating the same repeated threads with younger members and with no end in sight. It can sometimes feel like an online version of The Truman Show.
    Always possible
    I was never very active in D&D, to be fair.
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    I've been a member of numerous forums for at least 15 years. Then, most forums were quite left wing and very few people right wing. The type of discussion was different then.

    I think it simply reflects current day issues and attitudes. Obviously immigration is a big issue, the EU is a big issue and a certain religion is a huge issue. A big percentage of the general public worry about these issues and have turned to the far right for support as everyone else seemingly doesn't care. To a certain extent that will be mirrored here.

    Labour having a moron in charge has also pushed a few people in the opposite direction. In fact I know a lot of people who have disowned Labour.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Are you for real?

    Right wing people are shaping the western world as we watch. Brexit, Trump, Italy, in a couple of months the Netherlands and France.

    It is the left that is pi$$ing in the wind.
    Wouldn't call Brexit necessarily right wing.

    The five star movement in Italy aren't really right wing tbf. As anti-establishment parties go, they're one of the less extreme.

    The others I agree with.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The answer to the OP is that TSR is more reflective of the country than OP's (probably Labour) echo circles. The Libertarianism stems from the middle class demographic while the nationalism and anti-SJW stems from the fact that the userbase is mostly outside of London and heavily male.



    Is that really unrepresentative of the country as a whole outside London? I live outside of Bradford and i can tell you that most white folk have a very negative perception of that religion and its followers and these are people who are exposed to that hellhole rather than out in the sticks. Anecdotal perhaps but backed by polling. Britain aint Islam friendly outside of the circles of power.
    Whilst I have a lot of respect for independently minded conservatives such as yourself, Lib, Nullis, Limeman etc, there does seem to have been a massive upsurge in what I can only describe as 'Daily Mail comment section posters' on this forum in recent weeks.

    Debates are less about exchanging ideas but more about threads going 'X is ruining our way of life!!!'
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    It takes a lot of energy to argue with hard-right and so-called alt-right people online, and most of the time your efforts are wasted because they either won't acknowledge your post, or they will dismiss it out of hand as lies. After a short time most people give up. They are a (very) vocal minority who are best ignored.
    I'd say this is the case for anyone with dogmatic ideas about anything. I'm sure you can think of a certain left-of-centre member who frequents the U.S. presidential election thread who's like this too. :ninja:
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    As to the moderators on TSR, you can't generalise about us either. We're talking about 60ish people here, and if we put a poll up in the support team forum, I think you'd find that a lot of people would tick the 'indifferent' or 'not all that interested in politics' box, rather than identifying as right or left wing. I certainly haven't met any moderators that would conform to the 'SJW' stereotype.
    I agree that you can't generalise, but when you say you haven't met any such moderators... Would you say you've met/are aware of more or less all of the current ST members?
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I agree that you can't generalise, but when you say you haven't met any such moderators... Would you say you've met/are aware of more or less all of the current ST members?
    As I said, I've been a mod since 2009, and involved in the support team for longer.

    I'm sure that it's easiest for you guys to think that disagreement/warnings for your views has to mean the person interfering is left wing. But that isn't the only... nor even the most likely explanation for that outcome.
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    (Original post by Craghyrax)
    As I said, I've been a mod since 2009, and involved in the support team for longer.

    I'm sure that it's easiest for you guys to think that disagreement/warnings for your views has to mean the person interfering is left wing. But that isn't the only... nor even the most likely explanation for that outcome.
    I see. Just to be clear: I was speaking generally, not from my point of view. I don't consider myself right-wing, nor have I received warnings in the recent past. I just found it hard to believe that you don't know anyone on the ST to be the SJW-type. :ninja:
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Why is N&CA full of libertarians, nationalists, and anti-SJWs?

    Just curious to see if anyone has any theories why this is the case.
    I dunno, but student politics doesn't really allow for the middle-of-the-road centrist position.

    You have 3 options it seems. Far left, far right, or cynical self-service because you actually have a career in politics in mind.

    *shrug*

    Student politics is why I think the idea of raising the voting age to at least 25 has some merit.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I see. Just to be clear: I was speaking generally, not from my point of view. I don't consider myself right-wing, nor have I received warnings in the recent past. I just found it hard to believe that you don't know anyone on the ST to be the SJW-type. :ninja:
    SJWs are fewer and further apart than people think. Like the right on here, they're very visible and conspicuous. Even I wonder sometimes how far the issues I have with the Left are significant, versus just being down to a small proportion of the Left that gets all the headlines and infamy. I'm the closest to a SJW I know on here. Perhaps RK (TSR staff) comes close. But both he and his wife, randomm are critical of Corbyn despite being Labour, whereas I'm not. Most moderators become moderators because they are diplomatic, fairly easy going and down to earth. I'm a lot more argumentative than most mods are. My section is Universities, though, where the content I manage doesn't tend to get me quite as riled up What the mod team is, is liberal. And if people (not you) think SJWs are liberal, then they don't know what that label really means. However, you're right that I don't know all the mods. There are a very large number of us, and changeover is very fast.
 
 
 
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