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Swiss win EU case - Muslim girls must swim with boys Watch

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    (Original post by TheMaskedLady)
    Whats all this garbage about muslim's asking for special privileges? Just because what they're asking for is religion related everyone's suddenly arguing so much. Where as if the case was about, say a girl who didnt want to swim because she didnt want to show the scars on her body to anyone, everyone would be on the girls side. If you can respect her reasons why cant you respect a muslim's reason for wanting segregation? Their religion isnt interfering with your life so why y'all hating? Or if the girls didnt want to swim with the boys just because they werent 'comfortable with the other gender' I'm sure no one would have made such a hubbub over it but once religion comes into the picture... *explosion*
    I wish I could rep you more. I couldn't agree more, and not just any religion, as soon as islam is mentioned it doesn't matter what is being argued everyone will be against islam no matter how stupid it sounds
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    (Original post by nutz99)
    Seriously, with the number of perverts around nowadays that will never be an option.
    I think you are right, even if there were none people would fear that there were.

    The UK attitude to nudity is not the same as the German one. Being nude in a German sauna is normal and no issue, and most have a swimming pool attached.
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    (Original post by thatswrong.)
    Kass there's nothing barbaric about not swimming with boys.
    THere is, they don't want little boys to see their daughters skin, yet it's acceptable for girls to see them and for them to see boys. Expecting segregation on these basis is not proper of civilised contemporary people.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    THere is, they don't want little boys to see their daughters skin, yet it's acceptable for girls to see them and for them to see boys. Expecting segregation on these basis is not proper of civilised contemporary people.
    This isn't barbaric though. It's just something very conservative. Similar practises existed in this country before the sex revolution during the 1960s.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    Well in your case, it's clear as day that people just can't co-exist with that kind of mentality.

    My limit is set by the liberty principle. So long as these kids do not limit the rest of the kids to practice their religion, they should be provided reasonable accommodations. What is reasonable or not is difficult to determine a-priori but in this case, I think it's reasonable to have this demand catered for (how, it depends on individual circumstances - whether by providing alternative exercise or other extra classes for those kids at the end of the day is up to the shool and the parents to decide based on their resources and preferences).
    1) Person A does not want their male child to do compulsory swimming lessons with females in case they see their skin/come into physical contact with them, which is based on their religious/ideological beliefs.

    2) Person B does not want their white child to do compulsory P.E. with black children in case they come into physical contact with them, which is based on their religious/ideological beliefs.

    What is the genuine difference which justifies one as being valid and the other not?
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    If these Muslims want to practise their religion (if not having mixed swimming pools IS practising it by the way) could you please tell me why they can't just leave Switzerland and go and live in a Muslim majority country? Perhaps even the war torn third world hellhole they probably fled from in the first place?

    Why does that country have to adapt, dilute its "liberty", to suit them? They want to come and live in Switzerland? Fine. That is the deal. If you don't like it, leave, or don't come in the first place.

    Bravo Switzerland.
    What if they didn't migrate to switzerland and were born there? My ethnically british muslim revert friends wouldn't send their kids to a mixed swimming pool, should they also go back to where they came from?


    (Original post by Ladbants)
    The thing I don't understand is:
    Gender segregated swimming is not going to harm anyone
    Mixed swimming is going to hurt Muslims and some other religious groups

    So why not choose the option that satisfies everyone??
    Because this case involves muslims, and muslims aren't very liked at the moment

    (Original post by thatswrong.)
    Muslims are just not integrating, I honestly dont know why theyre making such a big issue and becoming an inconvenience to society. Yes, theyre entitled to freedom of religion but this doesnt constitute to freedom of religion.
    yes I'm such a big inconvenience to this society, thats why I'm gonna be treating people like you working in the f***ing NHS
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    yes I'm such a big inconvenience to this society, thats why I'm gonna be treating people like you working in the f***ing NHS
    Im referring to the muslims in the OP that should have been clear. Disrupting swimming lessons and wasting time in a human rights court is a massive inconvenience to society.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    And our "rules" support freedom of religion. It could be argued that this infringes on that principle.
    Freedom of religion doesnt mean you can sabotage governments/local actions because a book written centuries ago tells you so.
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    (Original post by thatswrong.)
    Im referring to the muslims in the OP that should have been clear. Disrupting swimming lessons and wasting time in a human rights court is a massive inconvenience to society.
    it didn't have to come to that, just let the kids sit on the side while the other kids swim. When girls in my primary school were on their period they'd be made to just sit on the side while everyone was swimming and it didn't cause an inconvenience for anyone

    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Because gender segregated swimming harm's Muslims.It deprives Muslim children of the opportunity to interact with the opposite sex.Just because their parents believe something backwards does not mean they should have the right to inflict it upon their children.Especially when said beliefs are based upon imaginary concepts.
    yh it's so sad right, not allowing people to mingle with the opposite gender is equal to taking their life. It's legit so sad init
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    (Original post by Mr Moon Man)
    Muslims are turning this into a us and them by refusing to assimilate
    how exactly am I refusing to assimilate? tell me since you seem to ****ing know so much about me
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    how exactly am I refusing to assimilate? tell me since you seem to ****ing know so much about me
    It obviously doesn't apply to every single Muslim ever, don't act like there isn't a problem with Muslims when there quite clearly is.
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    (Original post by Mr Moon Man)
    It obviously doesn't apply to every single Muslim ever, don't act like there isn't a problem with Muslims when there quite clearly is.
    there isn't a problem, I know loads of muslims who are doctors in training, pharmacist in training, nurses or planning to work for the british military. We go to university, and work to serve society either through businesses and etc. In what way are we not assimilating. Is it because muslims tend to be friends with each other? (I guess this is also what I noticed and I think its wrong but you see this with other groups too, in my uni the whites tend to stick together and dont talk to us coloured people, the indians also stick together and so do orientals). So stop being so ridiculous, I'm getting so fed up of all of this and I'm already having a really bad day
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    Really not sure how I feel about this as it is probably an infringement on religious freedom. They shouldn't be forced to swim with boys, but they certainly shouldn't be allocated their own separate pool either.
    Nobody is being forced to do anything. If people don't want to swim in the same swimming pool as members of the opposite sex, then they don't have to swim at all.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    there isn't a problem, I know loads of muslims who are doctors in training, pharmacist in training, nurses or planning to work for the british military. We go to university, and work to serve society either through businesses and etc. In what way are we not assimilating. Is it because muslims tend to be friends with each other? (I guess this is also what I noticed and I think its wrong but you see this with other groups too, in my uni the whites tend to stick together and dont talk to us coloured people, the indians also stick together and so do orientals). So stop being so ridiculous, I'm getting so fed up of all of this and I'm already having a really bad day
    Again, that's just anecdotal evidence, it doesn't mean much when there is actual evidence showing that there is a problem with assimilatiom. I'm glad that you know plenty of great people who happen to be Muslim, but that doesn't reflect what the rest are like.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    there isn't a problem, I know loads of muslims who are doctors in training, pharmacist in training, nurses or planning to work for the british military. We go to university, and work to serve society either through businesses and etc. In what way are we not assimilating. Is it because muslims tend to be friends with each other? (I guess this is also what I noticed and I think its wrong but you see this with other groups too, in my uni the whites tend to stick together and dont talk to us coloured people, the indians also stick together and so do orientals). So stop being so ridiculous, I'm getting so fed up of all of this and I'm already having a really bad day
    They're asking for special treatment, therefore it is a problem and isn't assimilation. If they don't like it, they are free to leave Switzerland and move to a Muslim country.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    They're asking for special treatment, therefore it is a problem and isn't assimilation. If they don't like it, they are free to leave Switzerland and move to a Muslim country.
    oh so religious freedom and freedom of expression means nothing yh? Or does it only mean something when it suits you? And what if the muslim in question is a native? People like you say that you have the right to draw the muslim prophet because of freedom of expression but this freedom of expression suddenly dissappears when a muslim is involved. Its so pathetic
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    there isn't a problem, I know loads of muslims who are doctors in training, pharmacist in training, nurses or planning to work for the british military. We go to university, and work to serve society either through businesses and etc. In what way are we not assimilating. Is it because muslims tend to be friends with each other? (I guess this is also what I noticed and I think its wrong but you see this with other groups too, in my uni the whites tend to stick together and dont talk to us coloured people, the indians also stick together and so do orientals). So stop being so ridiculous, I'm getting so fed up of all of this and I'm already having a really bad day
    Plus, you're argument is flawed. Saying that "we go to uni, we are doctors etc.so therefore there is no problem with any Muslim" - that's the same flawed logic as saying "all Muslims are terrorist because ISIS are muslim"

    Just because you've made a positive genrilisation, doesn't divert from your flawed argument.

    Then again you won't say anythjng negative about any fellow Muslim as you'll be exiled from the community right?
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    oh so religious freedom and freedom of expression means nothing yh? Or does it only mean something when it suits you? And what if the muslim in question is a native? People like you say that you have the right to draw the muslim prophet because of freedom of expression but this freedom of expression suddenly dissappears when a muslim is involved. Its so pathetic
    I actually believe that no religion should be involved in the state or anything in the public sphere. - I.e who can swim where.

    Drawing a picture is totally different as it does not effect any part of the public sphere on a day to day basis.
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    My question: why is the Swiss government forcing parents to send their children to swim classes in the first place?
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    I actually believe that no religion should be involved in the state or anything in the public sphere. - I.e who can swim where.

    Drawing a picture is totally different as it does not effect any part of the public sphere on a day to day basis.
    it does affect the public sphere because it offends people (besides I think people should be allowed to draw whatever they want to draw including the muslim prophet because I'm not a hypocrite like you)
 
 
 
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