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    (Original post by Josb)
    Perhaps this low prevalence of deaths by drowning is the result of the compulsory swimming classes...
    Syria shares a drowning rate with Switzerland and I'm pretty sure swimming lessons aren't their priority over there
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    oh so religious freedom and freedom of expression means nothing yh? Or does it only mean something when it suits you? And what if the muslim in question is a native? People like you say that you have the right to draw the muslim prophet because of freedom of expression but this freedom of expression suddenly dissappears when a muslim is involved. Its so pathetic
    Since when has freedom of religion meant that every religious requirement must be adopted by a secular state? Switzerland has every right to assess which religious practices go against its liberal and cultural values and thus which to make illegal. Your argument that every religious practice must be obeyed no matter what is absurd.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    Hilarious
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    I don't know why this has become such a big issue of disagreement. I would have expected both the parents and the school to be flexible and be able to reach a compromise.


    The parents are not asking for separate lessons or a separate pool to be provided at the school's expense. They are just asking for their children to be exempt from the lessons.

    I am quite sure that if the reason for exemption had been anything other than religion, most of the people on this thread wouldn't have had such a problem with it. The parents should have just claimed that their daughters had an extreme phobia of swimming. I don't see the big deal in being exempt from a non-academic school activity.

    If the school was uncompromisingly insistent that the lessons must be compulsory for everyone because of the tiny chance they might one day fall into a lake and drown, the parents could equally have compromised by agreeing to the lessons as long as their daughters were allowed to wear something more substantial than a swimsuit.
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    (Original post by Inexorably)
    This whole situation seems silly. There is nothing wrong with allowing for single-sex swimming classes.

    But also if such a thing is not to be provided then just go to a mixed-sex one.

    No wonder people are fed up of the EU when the EU has to deal with nonsense like this.
    when the EU doesn't, the likes of farage will blame on EU not controlling the spread of islam
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I don't know why this has become such a big issue of disagreement. I would have expected both the parents and the school to be flexible and be able to reach a compromise.


    The parents are not asking for separate lessons or a separate pool to be provided at the school's expense. They are just asking for their children to be exempt from the lessons.

    I am quite sure that if the reason for exemption had been anything other than religion, most of the people on this thread wouldn't have had such a problem with it. The parents should have just claimed that their daughters had an extreme phobia of swimming. I don't see the big deal in being exempt from a non-academic school activity.

    If the school was uncompromisingly insistent that the lessons must be compulsory for everyone because of the tiny chance they might one day fall into a lake and drown, the parents could equally have compromised by agreeing to the lessons as long as their daughters were allowed to wear something more substantial than a swimsuit.

    It's an issue because Switzerland won't allow itself to bow down to every demand of a religious minority like most other countries in Europe do. This is also why they ban the building of minarets (voted on in a referendum in 2009).

    If they had claimed that, they would be decieving court or lying to someone - I don't like liars.

    Sorry but even the ECHR disagrees with you there. Switerland are right not to compromise - if the family don't like it and essentially want gender segregation in lessons, they can leave Switerland and move to a Muslim country - it's that simple.Dont like it? Tough..

    As I always say "when in Rome..."
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Since when has freedom of religion meant that every religious requirement must be adopted by a secular state? Switzerland has every right to assess which religious practices go against its liberal and cultural values and thus which to make illegal. Your argument that every religious practice must be obeyed no matter what is absurd.
    be careful - you'll )or we'll even) be called racist soon, once the user has ran out of arguments
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    (Original post by Mr Moon Man)
    Good, it's them who have to follow our rules, not the the other way round.
    Could rep this a million times!
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I don't know why this has become such a big issue of disagreement. I would have expected both the parents and the school to be flexible and be able to reach a compromise.
    The parties do not wish to compromise. They wish it to be a test of the sort of country Switzerland is.

    What I find depressing about debates on TSR and elsewhere about these sort of issues is the way posters immediately descend into silos as though there is only one possibly right answer here, which is of course their opinion.

    This is ultimately a matter for the Swiss unless one can say that the Swiss law interferes with the human rights of the parents or children.

    Switzerland is a highly regulated country with numerous laws about social behaviour. If you do not have a free choice about washing your car, you shouldn't have one about with whom your child swims.

    On the other hand, Switzerland is a carefully worked out compromise between Catholic and Protestant. The country would never strain the consciences of either. Why should Muslim Swiss not have the same courtesy?
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    It's an issue because Switzerland won't allow itself to bow down to every demand of a religious minority like most other countries in Europe do. This is also why they ban the building of minarets (voted on in a referendum in 2009).

    If they had claimed that, they would be decieving court or lying to someone - I don't like liars.

    Sorry but even the ECHR disagrees with you there. Switerland are right not to compromise - if the family don't like it and essentially want gender segregation in lessons, they can leave Switerland and move to a Muslim country - it's that simple.Dont like it? Tough..

    As I always say "when in Rome..."
    What I find makes no sense is when people are willing to make room for individual requests, but just not if that request is made by a Muslim or due to Islamic reasons. If they had claimed they wanted their daughters to be exempt for some other personal reason, chances are they would have been fine (or at least nobody on TSR would have made an issue of it).

    It's one thing to say "If our country doesn't suit your religion, don't come", and quite another to go out of your way to make your country inhospitable to religious people.
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    (Original post by Gladstone1885)
    Syria shares a drowning rate with Switzerland and I'm pretty sure swimming lessons aren't their priority over there
    Hmm. How many bodies of open water are there in the famously desertified Syria? Rather fewer than in Switzerland, I suspect. How many Syrians have access to swimming pools? Again, I suspect more Swiss are at risk.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    This is ultimately a matter for the Swiss unless one can say that the Swiss law interferes with the human rights of the parents or children.
    Well, this is an EHCR judgement so you can be sure the human rights angle has been closely considered (and dismissed).
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Since when has freedom of religion meant that every religious requirement must be adopted by a secular state? Switzerland has every right to assess which religious practices go against its liberal and cultural values and thus which to make illegal. Your argument that every religious practice must be obeyed no matter what is absurd.
    And i have every right to laugh at and criticize their decisions and have the opinion that its intolerant and ridiculous
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    (Original post by Charzhino)
    Is this a straight forward ruling or is there a debate to be had whether the parents freedom of religious beliefs were impinged on and essentially told they were being bad parents?
    It can be both, and it is. They are bad parents.

    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Hmm. How many bodies of open water are there in the famously desertified Syria? Rather fewer than in Switzerland, I suspect. How many Syrians have access to swimming pools? Again, I suspect more Swiss are at risk.
    Does the Mediterranean Sea count? That's one more sea than landlocked Switzerland.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    It's an issue because Switzerland won't allow itself to bow down to every demand of a religious minority like most other countries in Europe do. This is also why they ban the building of minarets (voted on in a referendum in 2009).

    If they had claimed that, they would be decieving court or lying to someone - I don't like liars.

    Sorry but even the ECHR disagrees with you there. Switerland are right not to compromise - if the family don't like it and essentially want gender segregation in lessons, they can leave Switerland and move to a Muslim country - it's that simple.Dont like it? Tough..

    As I always say "when in Rome..."
    What if the muslims are natives? Do they still need to leave?
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    What if the muslims are natives? Do they still need to leave?
    I didn't say they need to leave did I?

    I said if they can if they would rather live in a country that follows Islamic traditions. If not, they're still
    a religious minority so shouldn't be given any special treatment.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    I didn't say they need to leave did I?

    I said if they can if they would rather live in a country that follows Islamic traditions. If not, they're still
    a religious minority so shouldn't be given any special treatment.
    Okay so what I gathered from you so far is you support intolerance towards muslims and you dont care about whether or not other people are happy as long as your needs are met just because you were lucky enough not to be born a minority. I dont ever wanna see you commenting on tsr complaining about certain muslim countries being intolerant towards non muslims.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    And i have every right to laugh at and criticize their decisions and have the opinion that its intolerant and ridiculous
    Of course, I never said otherwise. But your argument that religious freedoms should be unrestrained is an illogical one.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    Okay so what I gathered from you so far is you support intolerance towards muslims and you dont care about whether or not other people are happy as long as your needs are met just because you were lucky enough not to be born a minority. I dont ever wanna see you commenting on tsr complaining about certain muslim countries being intolerant towards non muslims.
    That's not true but believe what you want. The ECHR agrees with me as well .

    And supporting not being able to demand gender segregation is not intolerance - it's actually a liberal view.

    I'm the liberal in this. I'm against gender segregation, discrimination against homosexuals, discrimination against women etc - not my fault Muslims tend (which can be shown by laws in Muslim countries) to be in favour of all of those.

    However - if a Muslim country decided to enforce an alcohol ban for example and banned Catholics from taking communion in their country, I would support that. If the Catholics don't like it, they can leave said Muslim country.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Of course, I never said otherwise. But your argument that religious freedoms should be unrestrained is an illogical one.
    I never said it should be unrestrained, all Im saying is is that if the request can be met without any harm being caused then why not do it to seem like a more tolerant society. It makes me really sad to see this much intolerance especially as a person that goes out of my way to help others whenever I witness injustice and now it seems like no ones willing to back us up. The poem 'not my business' comes to mind when I think of the current situation regarding muslims
 
 
 
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