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    (Original post by tammie123)
    Ive been to beaches many times in my life and Ive never been half nude
    You're using the term "half nude", not me. I said in a state of undress that's less "modest" than what's seen on the street. Regardless, most people in a swimming pool and on a beach are showing much more of their body than usual so it's perfectly normal for children to learn how to be in such a situation with the opposite sex.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    The last time I checked being against gender segregation, against discrimination towards homosexuals and women is liberal.

    Please enlighten me to how that isn't liberal.
    Because you oppose those who support those illiberal practices.
    It is no longer enough to merely support freedom and oppose discrimination and intolerance. You must also support the freedom of others to practice discrimination and intolerance. The right of people to discriminate now trumps the right not to be discriminated against (in some circimstances).
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    Shutup you ***hole
    Top debating skillz bro!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Top debating skillz bro!
    Did you also say this to the person who threw a personal insult at me?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    The school tried. They provided a seperate changing area and allowed the girls to wear non-standard kit (burkini). The parents rejected this and demanded segregated swimming and when this was not provided, withdrew the children from lessons - which is against the law without a valid reason, and all authorities involved ruled that medieval superstition is not a valid reason for withdrawing children from school.

    They could have, but they refused to. (The school allowed the girls to wear a burkini during swimming lessons, and provided a seperate changing area.)
    If the choice to wear a burkini was provided, then I think the parents should have just accepted it. The only real reason why Muslim parents should be concerned about their daughters swimming amongst boys is because of the revealing nature of the usual outfits, which would be Islamically prohibited (and even then, not for very young children). A burkini solves that problem.

    To refuse to allow their daughters to continue receiving lessons amongst boys after that - well yes, it raises the question of why they're even sending their children to a mixed school in the first place when it bothers them that much.

    Like disability or medical reasons? Your right, because those are valid reasons. Superstition is not a valid reason. If a parent who believed in astrology wanted to withdraw their child because Mercury is retrograde, they would be treated the same.

    If the phobia was genuine, then that is a medical reason and therefore valid.

    If a lesson is mandatory, it is mandatory. People can't be allowed to cherry-pick what lessons they attend.
    Even if you think religion is superstition, I think a valid reason not to swim amongst boys can simply be that you don't feel comfortable amongst them in that sort of kit. Of course it's solved by the option of wearing a burkini, as I said.

    I just find it's an unnecessary thing to make an issue about.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    Did you also say this to the person who threw a personal insult at me?
    I didn't see any personal insult. Your comment was in response to someone who expressed the hope that you paid more attention to observation and evidence in your medical practice than you seemed to in this debate. A reasonable comment, based on observation (you had missed a vital piece of information about the case as well as claiming that Muslims are not treated like humans in the UK).
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I didn't see any personal insult. Your comment was in response to someone who expressed the hope that you paid more attention to observation and evidence in your medical practice than you seemed to in this debate. A reasonable comment, based on observation (you had missed a vital piece of information about the case as well as claiming that Muslims are not treated like humans in the UK).
    The fact that they even felt the need to mention that felt like a personal dig to me. Come on you know perfectly well what theyre trying to insinuate. Having personal digs at people wont help you win the debate it just makes you look childish and I shouldnt have said that despite them being horrible to me. If you lived as a muslim in this country your whole life youd also agree with me. Of course I try my best with my career. Human life is very important to me and I sacrifice alot of things to ensure I am doing the best job I possibly can
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    The parents made the choice to bring children into this world and raise them in this society, they can't expect things to be done as they were in 50s/60s/70s back home. If they want that kind of thing for their kids, nothing is stopping them from moving back or to another Muslim majority country. They were given the option of a burkini etc. so I don't see the issue. Send the kids to Islamic school or home school them if it's that deep.

    Beggars can't be choosers. No one is compelled to tend to your special snowflake cultural needs, especially since their culture won't be accepted and fought for if they moved to where you're from. /rant
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Kinda hard to drown in a desert.
    Pools of blood count.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    The fact that they even felt the need to mention that felt like a personal dig to me.
    It was a reasonable comment based on the evidence. They didn't criticise your medical performance, they merely expressed the hope that you took more time over your observations than you obviously did in this debate.

    If you lived as a muslim in this country your whole life youd also agree with me.
    What? That Muslims aren't treated as human? That is complete and demonstrable ********.

    As I said, if you want people to take you seriously you need to stop making ridiculous claims. And TBH, I don't think I'd want to be treated by someone who insists on publicly, and repeatedly, making irrational and unsupportable claims, and who gets angry and rude with people who disagree with them.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    It was a reasonable comment based on the evidence. They didn't criticise your medical performance, they merely expressed the hope that you took more time over your observations than you obviously did in this debate.

    What? That Muslims aren't treated as human? That is complete and demonstrable ********.

    As I said, if you want people to take you seriously you need to stop making ridiculous claims. And TBH, I don't think I'd want to be treated by someone who insists on publicly, and repeatedly, making irrational and unsupportable claims, and who gets angry and rude with people who disagree with them.
    A bit rich coming from you, look whose having a personal dig, thought you were above getting rude to people just because they disagree with you . I am human. Im having alot of personal problems right now and Im really depressed at the moment. Thats why Im getting upset with people more easily right now. Does that explain things? Now can you please stop attacking me and leave me alone.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    it didn't have to come to that, just let the kids sit on the side while the other kids swim. When girls in my primary school were on their period they'd be made to just sit on the side while everyone was swimming and it didn't cause an inconvenience for anyone



    yh it's so sad right, not allowing people to mingle with the opposite gender is equal to taking their life. It's legit so sad init

    Did I say it was equal to taking their life? Why shouldn't kids have the right to mingle with the opposite gender? This whole practice is designed to stop sex before marriage.Well shouldn't the kids get to decide whether or not to have relationships? Shouldn't they get to decide who they want to interact with rather than their parents.Childrens rights should come before their parents superstitious beliefs.Parents can have their silly beliefs only if they do not inflict it upon others and that should include their children.

    If you become tolerant of intolerance then you are yourself intolerant.And that's what you are doing here.You are tolerating the sexism that sees men and women segregated in Islam and therefore you are condoning that sexism and being intolerant yourself.
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    (Original post by Gladstone1885)
    Pools of blood count.
    :rofl:
    • Thread Starter
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    Appreciate the different viewpoints in responses to the story. I had mixed feelings when I first read the story but I'm leaning more firmly to the ECHR decision. Ultimately, its down to what is best for the children in the long run. Most importantly they cannot be missing swimming lessons that could be a lifesaving skill through a non-medical related excuse. Secondly on the issue of integration, I think its more healthy as children they learn to do activities together whether in the school classroom or for extra curriculum activities such as swimming. The reasons why the parents removed them from the lessons are not valid enough that they overcome the 2 valueable benefits aforementioned.
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    (Original post by zezno)
    No point arguing with QE2 he's on here everyday insulting Islam. Just evidence of a *****y upbringing really
    Yeah thats true, when he loses arguments he just resorts to personal attacks. Bullying people over the internet just shows you what kind of person he is tbh
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    (Original post by QE2)
    It was a reasonable comment based on the evidence. They didn't criticise your medical performance, they merely expressed the hope that you took more time over your observations than you obviously did in this debate.

    What? That Muslims aren't treated as human? That is complete and demonstrable ********.

    As I said, if you want people to take you seriously you need to stop making ridiculous claims. And TBH, I don't think I'd want to be treated by someone who insists on publicly, and repeatedly, making irrational and unsupportable claims, and who gets angry and rude with people who disagree with them.
    Besides she might be a better Pharmacist than her colleague, that you would rather get treated by.

    As a Muslim myself, I can say from my experience that I am not treated like a human, just because I choose to wear a head scarf.

    In my college, where it was majority Muslims, I made NO effort to make friends, yet I managed to make lots of friends, because of how much effort people made with me.

    Now that I go to a university with 98% non-Muslims. I get stared at from top to bottom as if I'm a walking turd. Even though I make MUCH more effort to make friends in university, the non-muslims do not give me chance (e.g. being cold, giving short answers. I'll give you proof of texts if you do not believe me!).

    My male friend who is also a Muslim, has un-british views and my views are MUCH more liberal and aligns more with the British norms compared to his. But people give him a chance just because he does not wear a religious attire.
    Spoiler:
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    Good. If you do not want to get treated by a good Pharmacist, then fine. We don't need irrational species like you on this planet.


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    (Original post by GlobalGayAgenda)
    The EU is part and parcel of the zionist cabal. They want to throw whatever mud they can at global islam because they know it is a threat to their callous, hedonistic, multinational-capitalist jewish empire. There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with seperating men and women in sports centres and protecting the dignity of families and women. But as long as they own and control the media, dont expect the smears and lies to end any time soon.....
    Oh, welcome back Global Shahada!
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    (Original post by tazmaniac97)
    Now that I go to a university with 98% non-Muslims. I get stared at from top to bottom as if I'm a walking turd. Even though I make MUCH more effort to make friends in university, the non-muslims do not give me chance (e.g. being cold, giving short answers. I'll give you proof of texts if you do not believe me!).

    My male friend who is also a Muslim, has un-british views and my views are MUCH more liberal and aligns more with the British norms compared to his. But people give him a chance just because he does not wear a religious attire.
    Think about what you are doing, and perhaps you will understand. You may be doing it because you are devout, or you may be doing it because your family expect it.

    Either way you are wearing clothing that clearly symbolises your beliefs and gives off messages that say, for instance: (a) I hold superstitious beliefs that are so important to me that I live my life by them and want to declare them publicly, (b) I fully realise this is not the norm in modern secular western society, (c) I don't wish to mix closely with males outside my family, and (d) don't even think I will consider having a drink or attending a social function with you.

    There is no wonder that males will steer clear (and this is part of the reason for dressing like that), but females who are not religious (or religious but not Moslem) probably will steer clear too, as this is so alien to them.

    Why don't you try dressing more normally and seeing how that affects things?
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    (Original post by zezno)
    Plantaganent Crown, QE2, just say you're an islamophobe with your chest, your life revolves around insulting groups of people on the internet. Cretins
    Aside from the fact that your accusations are false, I hope you appreciate the hypocrisy in your post.
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    (Original post by zezno)
    No point arguing with QE2 he's on here everyday insulting Islam. Just evidence of a *****y upbringing really
    the irony of your post :lol: :facepalm:
 
 
 
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