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    (Original post by Charzhino)
    To me its very similar to the burkini ban fiasco we had a few months ago in France. I can see both sides but im not sure which one is the better option.
    I think that although it could be considered an infringement on religious freedom, it is a straightforward ruling and it's good to see a European nation sticking to their constitution and values rather than bending the rules.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    I wish I could rep you more. I couldn't agree more, and not just any religion, as soon as islam is mentioned it doesn't matter what is being argued everyone will be against islam no matter how stupid it sounds
    Ahh thank you so much! And yesss people only care about a certain situation when its about islam. They start bashing a religion just because they have nothing better to do with their lives.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    I wish I could rep you more. I couldn't agree more, and not just any religion, as soon as islam is mentioned it doesn't matter what is being argued everyone will be against islam no matter how stupid it sounds
    It also works the other way around. As soon a someone dares to criticise the doctrine of Islam. Theyre called a racist or islamophobic. No matter if it actaully racist or not. Criticising Islam as a docterine isnt racist as a set of believes isnt a race.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    And our "rules" support freedom of religion. It could be argued that this infringes on that principle.
    That argument was made and debated by the Swiss judges (which you'd know if you'd read the ruling instead of making comments from a position of ignorance).

    The ECHR said that it amounted to an “interference [read: not a violation] with religious freedom” but that it was justified by the need to maintain “social integration and cohesion”. Which seems perfectly sensible to me.
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    (Original post by sirlancelot5)
    That argument was made and debated by the Swiss judges (which you'd know if you'd read the ruling instead of making comments from a position of ignorance).

    The ECHR said that it amounted to an “interference [read: not a violation] with religious freedom” but that it was justified by the need to maintain “social integration and cohesion”. Which seems perfectly sensible to me.
    And that argument can still be made. I did in fact read it.

    Interference/Violation mean basically the same thing in this context. I really don't understand why A) Swimming Lessons are mandatory in the first place, and B) Why they have to swim with boys.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    It also works the other way around. As soon a someone dares to criticise the doctrine of Islam. Theyre called a racist or islamophobic. No matter if it actaully racist or not. Criticising Islam as a docterine isnt racist as a set of believes isnt a race.
    People shouldn't do that that's not right, having opinions on a religion isn't a bad thing as long as people don't generalise groups of people I don't have a problem with it.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    I really don't understand why A) Swimming Lessons are mandatory in the first place, and B) Why they have to swim with boys.
    I can help you with those questions:

    (a) Teaching all children to swim is essential for any sensible country as it (i) saves lives; (ii) facilitates outlets for healthy recreation and non-impact exercise; (iii) provides a base for recruitment to some careers.

    (b) Boys and girls learn together because (i) swimming pools are expensive and getting sufficient time for two classes is not always either possible or cost-effective; (ii) it causes less disruption to the rest of the timetable; (iii) it helps to foster familiarity between the sexes and a cohesive society comfortable with local mores.
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    I can actually vouch for planta here though. He's not an islamophobe nor is he a Muslim hater/racist/bad person.
    There's a difference between criticising Islam and actually hating Muslims.

    (Original post by tammie123)
    People shouldn't do that that's not right, having opinions on a religion isn't a bad thing as long as people don't generalise groups of people I don't have a problem with it.
    A lot of the people on here don't actually hate Muslims.
    It might seem like it bc of the language they use but they're actually really nice people with very strong opinions and I say this bc I'm friends with/friendly with some of them. That being said though there are a few that are actually deplorable but they're usually always getting banned/somehow avoid getting banned.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I can help you with those questions:

    (a) Teaching all children to swim is essential for any sensible country as it (i) saves lives; (ii) facilitates outlets for healthy recreation and non-impact exercise; (iii) provides a base for recruitment to some careers.

    (b) Boys and girls learn together because (i) swimming pools are expensive and getting sufficient time for two classes is not always either possible or cost-effective; (ii) it causes less disruption to the rest of the timetable; (iii) it helps to foster familiarity between the sexes and a cohesive society comfortable with local mores.
    So the UK isn't a sensible country then? I wasn't taught to swim at school, but I can still do it.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    So the UK isn't a sensible country then? I wasn't taught to swim at school, but I can still do it.
    Many schools do have swimming lessons. Not all have easy access to a pool. I don't suppose all Swiss schools do either. That some schools cannot do it is not a good reason for those that can not to do it.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    People shouldn't do that that's not right, having opinions on a religion isn't a bad thing as long as people don't generalise groups of people I don't have a problem with it.
    People do though (esp if theyre the SJW type), and that is what annoys people and makes it seem Islam is put on a pedestal compared to others. Whether it is or not, doesnt matter. Its the perception people get.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    So the UK isn't a sensible country then? I wasn't taught to swim at school, but I can still do it.
    In some ways no it isnt.

    hes right -all children should be given the opportunity to swim. therefore it has to be done at school as 1. Some parents cant afford private lessons and 2. some parents dont give a damn about their kids upbringing.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    special treatment pfft, muslims aren't even treated like humans in your intolerant society
    Will try saying this in the nicest possible way but that comment is a disgrace to the Christians/Yazidis/non Muslims/Ahmadis that are treated horrifically in Muslim countries. They aren't given protection of the law or freedom like Muslims like you have over here.
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    (Original post by tammie123)
    special treatment pfft, muslims aren't even treated like humans in your intolerant society
    Honestly, this is a real insult to Swiss people and Western society in general. Muslims, on the whole, are treated very well, like the majority of people living in Western nations. They live under the same law and are able to take advantage of the great opportunities available in the Western world, just like anyone else, and they do- there are millions of Muslims happily living the Westenr world with no problems.

    To say that Muslims aren't currently treated as humans is a highly offensive to the millions of people who have been treated like sub-humans in the past and present- e.g. black slaves in America, non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia, the Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar and women in 12th century England. They suffered far worse than Muslims suffer in 21st century Switzerland. There is a huge difference.
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    lol boys and girls were seperated when I did PE at school.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Will try saying this in the nicest possible way but that comment is a disgrace to the Christians/Yazidis/non Muslims/Ahmadis that are treated horrifically in Muslim countries. They aren't given protection of the law or freedom like Muslims like you have over here.
    This is true. Christians are treated like animals in much of the Middle East today. In Saudi Arabia, Christians aren't even allowed to have Bibles or churches or even pray in public. In many other Muslim countries, Christians can easily be prosecuted or killed if declared apostates from Islam. There's a huge difference between this and Muslims having to share a swimming pool with the opposite gender.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    We should stop giving them reason to hate us by banning their practices and clothing. It's only going to make things worse.
    OK. But what about the freedom of other Europeans? What about equality?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...snt-paris-men/

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20170519/pro...grant-district
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    This is true. Christians are treated like animals in much of the Middle East today. In Saudi Arabia, Christians aren't even allowed to have Bibles or churches or even pray in public. In many other Muslim countries, Christians can easily be prosecuted or killed if declared apostates from Islam. There's a huge difference between this and Muslims having to share a swimming pool with the opposite gender.
    I agree. This problem is much more serious. What's more, Islam is controversial when it comes to gender equality.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Honestly, this is a real insult to Swiss people and Western society in general. Muslims, on the whole, are treated very well, like the majority of people living in Western nations. They live under the same law and are able to take advantage of the great opportunities available in the Western world, just like anyone else, and they do- there are millions of Muslims happily living the Westenr world with no problems.

    To say that Muslims aren't currently treated as humans is a highly offensive to the millions of people who have been treated like sub-humans in the past and present- e.g. black slaves in America, non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia, the Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar and women in 12th century England. They suffered far worse than Muslims suffer in 21st century Switzerland. There is a huge difference.
    Not to mention, that among all the freedoms they have in the western countries, they are also free to live. So if they stay, inspite of being treaded "not like humans" the consequence is that, it is better to be treated like an underhuman in the west, than to live in muslim countries.

    Currently the western values are used by some muslim hypocrites, to fight the western values. If Switzerland gives a stand it's good. It their country, they can decide how it's going to work. If someone doesn't like it, then it is always possible to leave.
    Same thing has been said even by a president of Kyrgystan (a muslim), that if someone does not like the fact that their culture isn't Arabic, the one can leave and they'll even pay for a ticket to Syria.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-36846249
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    Back in high school, we had an indoor swimming pool and swimming lessons were compulsory during P.E. I knew a girl whose parents were muslim and super religious, and initially they tried to withdraw her from the swimming lessons. The school said she could wear a "modest" swimsuit - in those days we didn't have burkinis, and her parents refused to even let her show her forearms or lower legs even though she wasn't a hijab wearer. So she had to swim in a wetsuit.

    She was the subject of ridicule by a few nasty people in the class. It wasn't even her choice - she told me herself that if she could choose she'd happily wear a normal swimsuit, but she was scared if she bought one and tried to hide it, her parents would find it.

    It's okay to have your own religious opinion, but when that causes your children to be alienated from her peers over something that is trivial in this part of the world, it makes me very sad.
 
 
 
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