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Swiss win EU case - Muslim girls must swim with boys Watch

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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    Is the concept of a free period alien to you?
    For 12 year olds?
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    First of all, we want to cater to people's beliefs no matter their content. So if you're in a country that has mandatory military service (Switzerland maybe?) and you are a pacifist you can ask for an exemption. If you're a vegetarian, you can ask for veggie meals. If you're an atheist, you can ask for a different kind of oath. Etc etc.

    It's nothing special indeed. People get all preachy about it 'cos it has to do with Muslims and they're not popular in Europe right now.
    No idea about pacifists, if it is true then It is a similar type of a nonsense as allowing muslims to skip classes. Vegeterianism is a different story as people can not like meat just due to the taste. Same argument for having not just one option for the meal.

    And even then the argument with muslims is not quite the same. Their "requests" are not just personal preferences but have further implications- children do not integrate.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    What is even supervision man? you have swimming class on monday at 10am, I have swimming class on friday at 2pm. What..
    But 2pm on Friday is already taken by another group. In fact, the pool schedule is full for the whole week.

    And they would be missing science on Friday at 2pm. How do they make that up? They can't do it on Mon at 10 because all the science teachers are teaching other classes, so their science suffers and they miss out on their dream of becoming doctors, fall into depression and become radicalised online, ending up as jihadi brides in Syria.
    In fact, there isn't a free teacher to supervise these girls at 10 on Mon, so the school has to employ agency staff for a couple of hours, which means that there isn't enough money left to provide after-school tuition for children from underprivileged backgrounds so instead of bringing their education up to speed after school, they are hanging out down the rec, getting addicted to meth and getting pregnant.

    See what you've done? Are you happy now?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Are you suggesting sending pre-teens of to free period without supervision?
    No?
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    First of all, we want to cater to people's beliefs no matter their content.
    So the children of white supremacists who don't want their kids swimming with blacks and Asians should be catered for?

    Idiot!
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    Yes but it is irrelevant to what we're discussing. The state is not responsible for the wellbeing of the children we're talking about.
    Wrong again. The school is legally in loco parentis.
    "It allows institutions such as colleges and schools to act in the best interests of the students as they see fit" - Law.com
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    It is amazing how people lose sight of the fact that unfettered liberalism is also called anarchy.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    I didn't say anywhere that they should break the law. I don't have any reason to like Muslims or their religion.
    You are arguing that the school should make special provision so the parents can circumvent the law, for the sole reason of religious priviledge.
    Why do you think that this should be the case?
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    My apologies for advocating religious liberty?
    But you are not arguing for religious liberty. You are arguing for religious priviledge.

    Two different things.
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    (Original post by Andersen94)
    Would we discuss this is the girls' parents had requested single sex changing rooms (on basis of religious reasons) if they weren't there?
    No, because we also see the benefit in single sex changing rooms and would be consider it strange to have a shared changing room. So don't see how it should be any different with the swimming classes.
    Let there be girls only swimming classes - people might also want for reasons other than religious ones.
    Except this isn't the same, as people often get naked and/or expose their genitalia in changing rooms and bathrooms, which they don't do in swimming lessons.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    My apologies for advocating religious liberty?
    If these Muslims want to practise their religion (if not having mixed swimming pools IS practising it by the way) could you please tell me why they can't just leave Switzerland and go and live in a Muslim majority country? Perhaps even the war torn third world hellhole they probably fled from in the first place?

    Why does that country have to adapt, dilute its "liberty", to suit them? They want to come and live in Switzerland? Fine. That is the deal. If you don't like it, leave, or don't come in the first place.

    Bravo Switzerland.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    No they don't. They might if this was North Korea. But it is not. Liberal societies accept freedom of conscience and freedom of religion - subject to constraints regarding violence. Parents not wanting to have their daughter swim with boys is not violating anyone's rights.
    What do you mean they don't? Of course they do and they did! Countries have every right to decide where the limits of religious freedom go.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    What do you mean they don't? Of course they do and they did! Countries have every right to decide where the limits of religious freedom go.
    I don't normally agree with you, but you are 100% right.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    What do you mean they don't? Of course they do and they did! Countries have every right to decide where the limits of religious freedom go.
    The person I quoted seemed to imply that they are not Swiss citizens themselves and somehow "the Swiss" can tell them to go to hell. It's not the case. They're Swiss Muslims and the state has to respect their rights to freedom of expression and can't just tell them to go anywhere.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    First of all, we want to cater to people's beliefs no matter their content. So if you're in a c People get all preachy about it 'cos it has to do with Muslims and they're not popular in Europe right now.
    I hate to break it to you but Muslims aren't popular most anywhere in the world right now.

    Any thoughts on why?
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    What about their hoomun ritez?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    The person I quoted seemed to imply that they are not Swiss citizens themselves and somehow "the Swiss" can tell them to go to hell. It's not the case. They're Swiss Muslims and the state has to respect their rights to freedom of expression and can't just tell them to go anywhere.
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure by "telling them where to go" he meant it metaphorically like "you can go **** yourself"?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure by "telling them where to go" he meant it metaphorically like "you can go **** yourself"?
    Yes, I meant it metaphorically as well. That they can't just tell them, "this is the law and if you don't like it, **** off". They have to actually take their interests into account as they're Swiss citizens and "the Swiss" is not a distinct entity. The (the Muslims) 're part of "the Swiss".
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    Yes, I meant it metaphorically as well. That they can't just tell them, "this is the law and if you don't like it, **** off". They have to actually take their interests into account as they're Swiss citizens and "the Swiss" is not a distinct entity. The (the Muslims) 're part of "the Swiss".
    They obviously wouldn't use those words, but in essence they can say that. The law is the law and if they don't abide by it they will face a punishment of some kind whether they like it or not. The Swiss government is not obliged in any way to take into account every religious requirement they may have.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    No?
    So what is the relevance of free study periods?
 
 
 
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