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To those who want striking to be made illegal... Watch

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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    That would be an ad hom fallacy

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    What more do you expect from a right winger? (I realise the irony overload)
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    (Original post by TheGuyReturns)
    And there are already public sector roles in this country where it is illegal to strike. Why aren't you complaining about that?

    Lol, most places can barely cope with a 1 day strike. Cope with 2-3 days? Pull the other one!

    I do. So much for your groundbreaking question.
    Do you?

    Where are the threads? Where are the petitions? What about the jobs where it's illegal to be in a trade union?

    It's easy to sit there, be a belligerent ******* and say "yes, of course", but do you even know which jobs in referring to?
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    (Original post by TheGuyReturns)
    What more do you expect from a right winger? (I realise the irony overload)
    Why do you presuppose that?

    Simply because I'm arguing with you? Bit of an error, no...? Never heard of devil's advocate?



    Fwiw I don't believe striking should be illegal. But you never asked...
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Unions need to be made weaker they have too much power and have overstretched their powers.
    Essential services shoud be heavily punished for striking, these bloody drivers and conductors have screwed over so many people. Southern should fire them all if they refuse to come back to work, but sadly these workers hold too much power.

    Workers and unions should never have this much power
    You prefer employers have all the power? So that they can put even more money into their own pockets?
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    striking is a form of bullying....you either give me what i want or I hurt you...this is not a rational way for change. Its authoritarian. Its not right to impose your way on others through means such as this.
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    Its not black and white - the criteria for a strike being considered 'legal' are a spectrum. And besides - striking is just one part of the broader area of employment law - there are loads of other variables that impact on the power balance between worker and employer.

    For example, I briefly worked in a country where employment law was on the employees side to a ridiculous extent. There was one employee (a nurse) who had been found to be making fraudulent claims in her work (as in, claiming to give meds she hadn't, making up patient's measurements). There were 20+ witnesses willing to testify (patients and staff) - tried to fire her, took the hospital to court - found she'd been unfairly treated and had to pay her for the time missed, a year's wage in compensation and continue to employ her (although, thankfully, she took her money and quit). In that country, if you wanted to fire someone you had to give three months notice. If you wanted to quit, 0 notice was needed. Which happened one day - half the staff of the hospital just didn't turn up because they'd banded together and 'wanted to work in the city'. The rest of the staff were screwed and there were undoubtedly deaths that happened as a direct result. Point being: even if strikes had been banned, the power in that situation is still clearly with the employee.

    (Original post by epsilondelta)
    A junior doctor does 3-4 years at medical school unpaid
    *5-6, and not unpaid - they pay £9kpa for the privilege [Edit: for the first 4 years].

    FYI.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    *5-6, and not unpaid - they pay £9kpa for the privilege

    FYI.
    Junior doctors are qualified doctors who have completed 5-6 years of med school and graduated with a medical degree. You are referring to med students. Students are not junior doctors....but yes its 5-6 years and much of it is covered by an NHS bursary.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    ....but yes its 5-6 years and much of it is covered by an NHS bursary.
    Only tuition fees in year 5 (and 6 if applicable).
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    The false acc here is that tube drivers are paid £50,000 per year.

    That's the starting basic pay for a new tube driver.

    This goes up with seniority, and critically does not involve shift bonuses. They don't publicise these, but they'd make bankers blush with their greed. It's hundreds or sometimes even thousands of pounds *per shift*. Remember when they went on strike over the night tube? Apparently over safety? Tfl had to fight the drivers off who wanted to do the night tube shifts because they are so lucrative.

    The reason tube staff can strike whenever they like to blackmail the country is because they can make up any loss of earnings in a few hours.

    The darlings of the left, the unions, preside over a fat cat model that is so widespread and so closed that it would be utterly condemned in any other situation. These people are apparently a public service, yet they are all high-rate tax payers. It's not a private enterprise where consumers can make a choice. It's a monopoly of blackmail. Yet where do the left stand? With the greedy, lazy, overpaid, extorting union closed shop.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    striking is a form of bullying....you either give me what i want or I hurt you...this is not a rational way for change. Its authoritarian. Its not right to impose your way on others through means such as this.
    Rubbish. Unions are basically workers organising themselves to demand change, which is a form of workplace democracy. Unions and the right to strike have been vital in pressuring employers and securing workers' rights that we take for granted today. Restrict that too much (or ban it completely) and employers are in a much better position to **** over their workers and exploit them, which happens in countries with more relaxed labour laws. Especially at a time when people are struggling to find work and can't always "just get another job".

    I am talking about striking and unions in general here, not this current tube driver strike that other people have brought up on this thread.
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    I support the strikes over Southern, not because of the unions but because Southern don't lose out when they run a crap service. Southern try time and time again to claim that the strikes affect their ability to provide a service, but it actually makes no difference to their performance regardless of whether there are strikes.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    striking is a form of bullying....you either give me what i want or I hurt you...this is not a rational way for change. Its authoritarian. Its not right to impose your way on others through means such as this.
    That's capitalism for you.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    The false acc here is that tube drivers are paid £50,000 per year.

    That's the starting basic pay for a new tube driver.

    This goes up with seniority, and critically does not involve shift bonuses. They don't publicise these, but they'd make bankers blush with their greed. It's hundreds or sometimes even thousands of pounds *per shift*. Remember when they went on strike over the night tube? Apparently over safety? Tfl had to fight the drivers off who wanted to do the night tube shifts because they are so lucrative.

    The reason tube staff can strike whenever they like to blackmail the country is because they can make up any loss of earnings in a few hours.

    The darlings of the left, the unions, preside over a fat cat model that is so widespread and so closed that it would be utterly condemned in any other situation. These people are apparently a public service, yet they are all high-rate tax payers. It's not a private enterprise where consumers can make a choice. It's a monopoly of blackmail. Yet where do the left stand? With the greedy, lazy, overpaid, extorting union closed shop.
    errr.... you're making an excellent case for unions. They work.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Possibly,
    No, it is.
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    (Original post by TheGuyReturns)
    And if they walk out without quitting? Right wing nut jobs saying these people should be prosecuted essentially.
    Then they get fired, some thing really except you're probably not going to get a good job again.
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    What is somewhat surprising here is the ignorance about the present law and the past law.

    Since 2000 it has been illegal to dismiss strikers taking part in a lawful strike

    Between 1971-2000 it was lawful to dismiss strikers but you must dismiss all or none and if you rehire you must re-hire all or none

    Before 1971 there was no law of unfair dismissal. Strikers repudiated their contracts by striking and employers accepted that repudiation by not letting them back.

    In early days, I do not know whether this carried on after 1906 to protect individuals. employees gave notice before striking to prevent their union funds being at risk from the tort of inducing breach of contract and to prevent themselves being sued in the County Court for breach of contract.

    Police strikes were made illegal in 1919 following the Liverpool Police Strike of that year.

    It has always been illegal for the armed forces to strike

    It wasn't untill 1994 that the courts discovered that prison officers had the powers of constables and were subject to the police ban on striking. The government enacted modern statutory provisions in the same year. That ban has since been lifted and reimposed, but since 2001 there has been an agreement not to strike and the government generally takes action for breach of that agreement.

    MI5 MI6 and GCHQ staff cannot take action for unfair dismissal if sacked for striking ie they are in the pre-1971 position
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    (Original post by NI30241834)
    I didn't say striking should be illegal though if some office workers or factory workers want to go on strike it's a different situation. If public sector workers like firefighters, train drivers, doctors, teachers etc go on strike it is completely unfair on all the people that depend on them to go about their daily lives. Public sector strikes are simply extortion of common people.
    And how do you propose people in these jobs prevent the government from extorting them?
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    And how do you propose people in these jobs prevent the government from extorting them?
    By the use of a complaints commision modeled on the ones already used in the police and the army. Also people are free to walk away if they don't want to work(except in the army) so the government would be well advised to treat them well if they don't want to loose their workforce.
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    I'm in support of striking if it is for something important, like safety.
    (I'm looking at you, ASLEF/RMT, keep up the good work!)
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    (Original post by GW43125)
    I'm in support of striking if it is for something important, like safety.
    (I'm looking at you, ASLEF/RMT, keep up the good work!)
    But the man who ultimately carries the can for railway safety, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Railways, says:

    "There are clear safety benefits compared to the current method of operation using a Conductor because the driver will be able to monitor the Platform Train Interface for a short distance as the train leaves the station."

    http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_...nuary-2017.pdf
 
 
 
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