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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    How about you just wear the clothes and maintain the appearance pertaining to your biological sex and use the corresponding bathroom? Nobody will be confused as to what you are, and you'll avoid causing yourself a lot of hassle and awkward questions.
    If you're a candidate for 'gender reassignment' or 'sex change surgery' you need to live as a member of the sex you're transitioning too for a couple of years before going on the waiting list for surgery, this is called 'social gender role transition'.... this naturally enough includes dressing as a member of the target sex and using the toilets of the target sex.

    Turns out it's not as simple as get the surgery first - then work out how you're going to live after that.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    If you're a candidate for 'gender reassignment' or 'sex change surgery' you need to live as a member of the sex you're transitioning too for a couple of years before going on the waiting list for surgery, this is called 'social gender role transition'.... this naturally enough includes dressing as a member of the target sex and using the toilets of the target sex.

    Turns out it's not as simple as get the surgery first - then work out how you're going to live after that.
    Another suggestion to simplify potential issues and future complications in your life: Don't get sex change surgery?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Another suggestion to simplify potential issues and future complications in your life: Don't get sex change surgery?
    Even better, why doesn't everyone just commit suicide to avoid any potential issues and future complications in their lives!
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    If what you want is no life at all, rather than a simple and easy one, then sure.
    Repressing your identity to conform may sound "simple and easy" to you.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    That's their parent who they trust, not a random strange man loitering in the little girls room.
    I think I misspoke there, I meant young girls often go in the mens toilets. So there would be lots of strange men...

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Toilets don't have to be sexual places for a sexual assault to take place..
    By making gender neutral toilets, it makes it easier for them.
    Toilets are public places. Most of the time public toilets aren't empty, even if they are, they are often close enough to where people are that if anything like a sexual assault happened, it would probably be stopped quickly. Gender neutral toilets would be less likely to be empty as well.

    The problem with this issue is that people overthink it. We rarely ever hear of sexual assault happening in toilets, and thats not just because they're separated by gender, it's really easy to go into the toilet that is opposite to your gender, and is hardly a barrier for sexual predators.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    why? What is the point?
    And what exactly is the point of separated toilets? If people are using an enclosed cubicle, in private?

    My original point was more in support of transgender people using whatever toilets they want to rather than an introduction of gender neutral toilets, but that didn't really come through I guess
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    (Original post by epage)
    Toilets are public places. Most of the time public toilets aren't empty, even if they are, they are often close enough to where people are that if anything like a sexual assault happened, it would probably be stopped quickly. Gender neutral toilets would be less likely to be empty as well.

    The problem with this issue is that people overthink it. We rarely ever hear of sexual assault happening in toilets, and thats not just because they're separated by gender, it's really easy to go into the toilet that is opposite to your gender, and is hardly a barrier for sexual predators.

    Maybe I'm just really in uninhibited compared with most people, but I've always felt this way, I don't understand why people think public toilets are the places you're most likely to be assaulted in, or even why we need gender separated toilets given that the cubicles have locks on the doors which clearly maintain privacy/safety and the fact it's a public place where people are rapidly moving in and out of, means it's the last place a rapist would think of using.
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    (Original post by epage)
    I think I misspoke there, I meant young girls often go in the mens toilets.
    When does this ever happen? Maybe in some kind of extreme situation but I doubt it often happens as you put it.

    Toilets are public places. Most of the time public toilets aren't empty, even if they are, they are often close enough to where people are that if anything like a sexual assault happened, it would probably be stopped quickly. Gender neutral toilets would be less likely to be empty as well.
    Falling victim to a sexual predator doesn't have to involve physically touching them. It could be a peeping Tom or someone taking/recording explicit pictures and videos.

    The problem with this issue is that people overthink it. We rarely ever hear of sexual assault happening in toilets, and thats not just because they're separated by gender, it's really easy to go into the toilet that is opposite to your gender, and is hardly a barrier for sexual predators.
    Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening. It's easy to report a strange man loitering in the women's toilets. You wouldn't be able to do that with gender neutral toilets.

    And what exactly is the point of separated toilets? If people are using an enclosed cubicle, in private?
    I feel more comfortable knowing that I'm partially naked surrounded by other women, and not random men.

    What's next? Gender neutral changing rooms?

    My original point was more in support of transgender people using whatever toilets they want to rather than an introduction of gender neutral toilets, but that didn't really come through I guess
    You just said in your point above that there's no point of separated toilets...

    I agree that trans people should use the toilets of the gender they are transitioning to, but only if they're confident that they can 'pass'.
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    (Original post by l'etranger)
    Maybe I'm just really in uninhibited compared with most people, but I've always felt this way, I don't understand why people think public toilets are the places you're most likely to be assaulted in, or even why we need gender separated toilets given that the cubicles have locks on the doors which clearly maintain privacy/safety and the fact it's a public place where people are rapidly moving in and out of, means it's the last place a rapist would think of using.
    The cubicles may have locks on the door but they have open spaces above and below
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    It's all getting silly this is. Where do you draw the line in catering for everyone. It was so much simpler when it was just man and woman. The more I think about it the more I want to run away to some small little island and become a hermit.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    The cubicles may have locks on the door but they have open spaces above and below
    1) /r/thathappened, you will get horny perverts just giving one another leg ups to peep over the top. That's like saying men and women should be segregated in work in case the man gets in his hands and knees, crawls under the table and looks up your skirt.

    2) The same thing exists at the swimming pool with the cubicles having gaps at the top and bottom yet mysteriously nobody worries about getting changed there and the men manage to not crawl under and have a little peep.



    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I feel more comfortable knowing that I'm partially naked surrounded by other women, and not random men.
    Why are you getting naked in the public bathrooms and why are you not using the cubicles?
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    (Original post by l'etranger)
    1) /r/thathappened, you will get horny perverts just giving one another leg ups to peep over the top. That's like saying men and women should be segregated in work in case the man gets in his hands and knees, crawls under the table and looks up your skirt.
    Do you have your genitals out when you're at work?

    2) The same thing exists at the swimming pool with the cubicles having gaps at the top and bottom yet mysteriously nobody worries about getting changed there and the men manage to not crawl under and have a little peep.
    Do swimming pools have gender neutral changing rooms?



    Why are you getting naked in the public bathrooms and why are you not using the cubicles?
    partially naked in the cubicle obviously
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    Legally, toilets are separated by gender. You do not need to change sex to be recognised as trans under the law.

    Allowing non-operative trans individuals into the appropriately gendered bathroom hasn't caused mass discomfort; it hasn't led to men claiming that they're women and going into women's bathroom. There is no crisis here. It's been happening, it's probably even happened to you and you haven't even realised it.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Do you have your genitals out when you're at work?

    Well :smug: My point is that if you're in a cubicle with the door locked they're not exactly going to see you.



    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Do swimming pools have gender neutral changing rooms?
    Er yes. It's a collective changing area and supposedly (:cool:) one person to a cubicle, just like public bathrooms.




    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    partially naked in the cubicle obviously
    Where nobody can see you.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Legally, toilets are separated by gender. You do not need to change sex to be recognised as trans under the law.
    brb my gender identity is female

    Except wait, actually, I don't see any benefit to doing that whatsoever.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Do swimming pools have gender neutral changing rooms?
    Yep, mine does.
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    Whichever gender you were born as, even post op. We should not encourage this behaviour.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    When does this ever happen? Maybe in some kind of extreme situation but I doubt it often happens as you put it.
    I've been in the mens toilets many times, and I wouldn't call it an 'extreme situation'. It happens a lot. Mothers take their young sons into the toilets often too, it isn't as weird as you're making it sound.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's not happening. It's easy to report a strange man loitering in the women's toilets. You wouldn't be able to do that with gender neutral toilets.
    You could easily report strange behaviour?? A man in the womens toilets doesn't mean he's a sexual predator anyway, there could be a longer line for the mens, they could be shut, who knows. Even if they aren't, if he isn't acting strange and is just going about his business, there isn't any reason to report him.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I feel more comfortable knowing that I'm partially naked surrounded by other women, and not random men.

    What's next? Gender neutral changing rooms?
    In a private cubicle where you can't see anyone else? It isn't like roman times where you have to share a sponge on a stick with many other people but.. fair enough. I can understand why some women may feel uncomfortable.
    Also, no, I disagree with gender neutral changing rooms, thats a much less private situation so it wouldn't work

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You just said in your point above that there's no point of separated toilets...

    I agree that trans people should use the toilets of the gender they are transitioning to, but only if they're confident that they can 'pass'.
    Yes, but that's going to be criticised more than transgender people in the toilet they choose. Transgender people shouldn't have to 'pass' to be accepted. and, not all transgender people transition because it's expensive and invasive etc.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Do swimming pools have gender neutral changing rooms?
    ummmm - yes

    And most gender neutral toilets (and increasingly in segregated toilets too) don't have a large gap at the top/bottom of the door.

    As for "men rarely take their children to the toilets" from your earlier post - what on EARTH are you talking about - of course they do. I remember being taken into public gents toilets by my dad back in the 80s and it's even more common now. No gender neutral toilets means that a dad out with his kids has NO CHOICE but to tao either go into the ladies with his children or to take his children into the gents (and past the urinals to get to the cubicles).

    I have this problem with my partner when we travel abroad - in France and USA most disabled toilets aren't gender neutral (because for some reason their public bodies seem to think noone would even need assistance to use a loo from someone of another gender) so we have the choice of either I go with him into the gents (past the urinals to get to the accessible cubicle) or he comes with me into the ladies. We normally go with the latter because in the public area of the ladies noone has their genitals out so there's less chance of embarrassing someone
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    People ask like unisex and toilets are a thing.
    If a company/place of business gets too much pressure about letting trans use the toilets that their non-biological sex would use, they should add a unisex toilet. Win win.
    But I'm a strong believer in not giving in to the oppressive PC culture.
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    I've seen many women use the men's toilets, especially at events because the woman's queue always seems to be so much longer than the men's.
 
 
 
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