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    (Original post by EdwardBarfield9)
    People ask like unisex and toilets are a thing.
    If a company/place of business gets too much pressure about letting trans use the toilets that their non-biological sex would use, they should add a unisex toilet. Win win.
    But I'm a strong believer in not giving in to the oppressive PC culture.
    As much as I think PC culture is retarded, you should be deciding on the basis of whether it makes sense, rather than specifically digging your heels in just to prove a point.

    Also they are a thing in clubs.
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    (Original post by Palmyra)
    Repressing your identity to conform may sound "simple and easy" to you.
    Buying clothes from the menswear department and not mutilating my genitals does indeed sound extremely simple and easy to me! I'd worry for the mental capacity of anyone who is incapable of doing this.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Buying clothes from the menswear department and not mutilating my genitals does indeed sound extremely simple and easy to me! I'd worry for the mental capacity of anyone who is incapable of doing this.
    Maybe they should do more manly activities too, like a hunting trip with some cowboys.

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    (Original post by bubblegumcat)
    they should use whatever toilets they're comfortable with


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    What about those who are with them in the toilets? Are they comfortable having a trans. in their toilet?
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    (Original post by l'etranger)
    Well :smug: My point is that if you're in a cubicle with the door locked they're not exactly going to see you.





    Er yes. It's a collective changing area and supposedly (:cool:) one person to a cubicle, just like public bathrooms.






    Where nobody can see you.
    Doesn't matter if nobody can see me, I know what I'm comfortable with, and I wouldn't want anything increasing the likelihood of falling victim to somebody
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    (Original post by PQ)
    ummmm - yes

    And most gender neutral toilets (and increasingly in segregated toilets too) don't have a large gap at the top/bottom of the door.
    Then that's fair enough. But it's not something that I would support, I don't see the need for it.

    As for "men rarely take their children to the toilets" from your earlier post - what on EARTH are you talking about
    ngl I never said this.

    I have this problem with my partner when we travel abroad - in France and USA most disabled toilets aren't gender neutral (because for some reason their public bodies seem to think noone would even need assistance to use a loo from someone of another gender) so we have the choice of either I go with him into the gents (past the urinals to get to the accessible cubicle) or he comes with me into the ladies. We normally go with the latter because in the public area of the ladies noone has their genitals out so there's less chance of embarrassing someone
    It's obviously different for people with disabilities who may need assistance
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    ngl I never said this.
    Yes - you did

    (Original post by epage)
    also this point: young girls often go to the mens toilets with their dad if their mother is not around. As I said, toilets are not sexual places and if there is a man going into the toilets and peeking at young children, that would most likely be reported whether toilets are gender neutral or not, whether the person is transgender or not.

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    That's their parent who they trust, not a random strange man loitering in the little girls room.
    (Original post by epage)
    I think I misspoke there, I meant young girls often go in the mens toilets. So there would be lots of strange men..

    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    When does this ever happen? Maybe in some kind of extreme situation but I doubt it often happens as you put it.
    It's obviously different for people with disabilities who may need assistance
    Why is that?

    What if it's a woman who is disabled and needs assistance from her non-disabled male partner? Would that be ok too?
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    (Original post by epage)
    I've been in the mens toilets many times, and I wouldn't call it an 'extreme situation'. It happens a lot. Mothers take their young sons into the toilets often too, it isn't as weird as you're making it sound.
    Why do you go to the men's toilets?

    well obviously parents with small children are a different situation. They may not want to leave their young child alone or the kid might need help going to the toilet.


    You could easily report strange behaviour?? A man in the womens toilets doesn't mean he's a sexual predator anyway, there could be a longer line for the mens, they could be shut, who knows. Even if they aren't, if he isn't acting strange and is just going about his business, there isn't any reason to report him.
    It wouldn't be easy to report if the toilets were gender neutral.



    In a private cubicle where you can't see anyone else?
    Yes.
    It isn't like roman times where you have to share a sponge on a stick with many other people but.. fair enough. I can understand why some women may feel uncomfortable.
    Also, no, I disagree with gender neutral changing rooms, thats a much less private situation so it wouldn't work
    What's the big difference between gender neutral changing rooms and gender neutral toilets?


    Yes, but that's going to be criticised more than transgender people in the toilet they choose. Transgender people shouldn't have to 'pass' to be accepted. and, not all transgender people transition because it's expensive and invasive etc.
    Call me old fashioned but Yes, I do think that they should have to pass as a woman to be accepted in the women's toilets and vice versa.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Yes - you did
    Point out where I supposedly said "men rarely take their children to the toilets".

    she was insinuating that a perfectly able female 'often' uses the men's toilet.



    Why is that?

    What if it's a woman who is disabled and needs assistance from her non-disabled male partner? Would that be ok too?
    It's different because like a small child, they need assistance. You wouldn't ask for assistance from a complete stranger just because they're the same sex as you. You obviously want someone you can trust and feel comfortable partially exposing yourself to
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    I don't really like the sound of it.

    What about women with daughters? Would they feel comfortable aiding their daughter in the toilet whilst a grown man is in the cubicle directly next to them who could take a peek if he wanted to?
    I think you'd still keep gender labelled toilets and have the gender neutral ones aside.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Point out where I supposedly said "men rarely take their children to the toilets".
    You said young girls (which obviously refers to children given the context) only use the gents in extreme situations responding to a chain of discussions that was about dad's taking their children to the toilet (in the gents - where there are lots of men including those using urinals)


    she was insinuating that a perfectly able female 'often' uses the men's toilet.
    No she wasn't - it was a discussion and a point about fathers taking their children into the gents to use the toilets. You responded saying that only their fathers would be present and then when it was pointed out that wasn't the case said it was an "extreme situation".

    The entire chain of responses is in the post you just replied to - if you misunderstood then fine but AT THE MOMENT with few gender neutral toilets dad's out with their kids are forced to take them into the gents (with lots of adult men - often using the urinals).



    It's different because like a small child, they need assistance. You wouldn't ask for assistance from a complete stranger just because they're the same sex as you. You obviously want someone you can trust and feel comfortable partially exposing yourself to
    So you wouldn't object to a man in the ladies if he was assisting a child or a disabled women?

    But you'd object to a trans woman.
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    (Original post by Nottie)
    I think you'd still keep gender labelled toilets and have the gender neutral ones aside.
    Oh then fine, I have no problems with that
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    (Original post by PQ)
    You said young girls (which obviously refers to children given the context) only use the gents in extreme situations responding to a chain of discussions that was about dad's taking their children to the toilet (in the gents - where there are lots of men including those using urinals)



    No she wasn't - it was a discussion and a point about fathers taking their children into the gents to use the toilets. You responded saying that only their fathers would be present and then when it was pointed out that wasn't the case said it was an "extreme situation".

    The entire chain of responses is in the post you just replied to - if you misunderstood then fine but AT THE MOMENT with few gender neutral toilets dad's out with their kids are forced to take them into the gents (with lots of adult men - often using the urinals).
    Given that I clearly stated that there's no issue with mothers who take their young children to the public toilets with them, why would I object to fathers doing the same?

    She said that she sometimes uses the men's toilet, which is what I found to be odd, unless in a particular situation.

    So you wouldn't object to a man in the ladies if he was assisting a child or a disabled women?
    No I wouldn't object.

    But you'd object to a trans woman.
    I'm failing to see the correlation
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Given that I clearly stated that there's no issue with mothers who take their young children to the public toilets with them, why would I object to fathers doing the same?

    She said that she sometimes uses the men's toilet, which is what I found to be odd, unless in a particular situation.


    No I wouldn't object.



    I'm failing to see the correlation
    You're saying that men in the ladies is fine if they're dads or carers.

    And that allowing trans people to use the toilets they're most comfortable with "normalises" men in the ladies in a way that risks increasing sexual assault.

    Can you not see how those two views seem contradictory? Surely having trans women in the ladies is less "normalising" than having cis men who are carers or guardians in the ladies.

    Either you're assuming that trans women are more likely to be sexual predators or you're assuming that carers/parents are less likely to be sexual predators than other cis men. Both assumptions are completely incorrect.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    You're saying that men in the ladies is fine if they're dads or carers.
    Yes

    And that allowing trans people to use the toilets they're most comfortable with "normalises" men in the ladies in a way that risks increasing sexual assault.
    No, I'm not saying this.

    Can you not see how those two views seem contradictory? Surely having trans women in the ladies is less "normalising" than having cis men who are carers or guardians in the ladies.

    Either you're assuming that trans women are more likely to be sexual predators or you're assuming that carers/parents are less likely to be sexual predators than other cis men. Both assumptions are completely incorrect.
    No.
    What I have said is that trans people should use the toilets of the gender they're transitioning to as long as they're confident that they'll 'pass' otherwise it would look odd.

    My point about the sexual predators refers to this idea of gender neutral toilets.
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    Neither, make them **** on the floor. But no, they should go into the one of their biological gender, and if they decide to chop their bits off and pretend to be a woman, you can go into neither.
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    I think if you identify yourself as a woman and you have undergone the surgery you should be allowed to go in the female toilets. She will have probably had other surgery so to look that gender anyway. If other people are uncomfortable that a woman is in the womans toilet thats on them.

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Should a trans woman who has not undergone surgery and still looks like a man choose to use female public toilets? Or is it better for her and everyone if she just uses the male toilets like she has done all her life?

    Do not mean to cause any offence if this is a sensitive topic, I'm just wondering.
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    (Original post by bubblegumcat)
    they should use whatever toilets they're comfortable with


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    I don't feel comfortable in male toilets because they're dirty, and everyone is farting... should I be able to go into female toilets?
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    We have disabled toilets, they can go use them. Funnily enough I do consider gender dysphoria a disability so those toilets suit them.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Given that I clearly stated that there's no issue with mothers who take their young children to the public toilets with them, why would I object to fathers doing the same?

    She said that she sometimes uses the men's toilet, which is what I found to be odd, unless in a particular situation.
    Lmao I didn't say I use them now - I said I have used them, there's a difference, I used them occasionally when I was really young if I was out with just my dad. Didn't realise that would be so controversial? This is a weird conversation. I don't make a habit of using the mens toilet, to clarify.
 
 
 
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