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The union of Southern Rail being taken to the surpeme court Watch

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    (Original post by Rock Fan)
    Right thing to do? imagine everyone who uses Southern Rail is beyond sick of the strikes by now.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38588863

    This is a completely contrived argument. The idea is that any strike that makes it harder for an EU citizen to come and work in the U.K. is illegal. So a car factory can't go on strike if it means that it is harder for a Pole to buy a car. Hospital porters can't go on strike if that makes it harder for Italians to access medical services.

    Strikes inevitably inconvenience the public. If one says that it is illegal to inconvenience a national of another EU state then there is no right to strike


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    From what i can see the Unions want to protect jobs becayse they can see big losses coming so have drawn this line in the sand. The safety issu imo is a bit fo a smoke screen. GTR want to break the Union and are really the government who also want to do the same. If/ when the Union lose then there will be further job losses after GTR loses the franchise in 2020.

    GTR appear to have been a rubbish franchisee, which is why for a while the train drivers had public support. (I dont use them so cant tell, some of you appear to be on their service lines) All the losses are being paid for by the taxpayer as they have a unique arrangement whereby GTR just collect fares on behalf of the government and take none of the losses. This mans theres never been any impetus to run it properly as they arent at risk. they do what the government tells them. When the franchise runs out the union will have been broken, GTR will be blamed but will get big cheques and life will go on.

    IMO they ought to have compulsory arbitration. Pay them off and get on with it.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    This is a completely contrived argument. The idea is that any strike that makes it harder for an EU citizen to come and work in the U.K. is illegal. So a car factory can't go on strike if it means that it is harder for a Pole to buy a car. Hospital porters can't go on strike if that makes it harder for Italians to access medical services.

    Strikes inevitably inconvenience the public. If one says that it is illegal to inconvenience a national of another EU state then there is no right to strike


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    Thanks for your concise answer. Saves me having to look.

    If thats the argument, then surely not a cat in hells chance with that one?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Thanks for your concise answer. Saves me having to look.

    If thats the argument, then surely not a cat in hells chance with that one?
    They have lost in the High Court and in the Court of Appeal. The headlines are misleading in that they don't yet have permission to take the case to the Supreme Court. All they have done is decided to ask the Supreme Court for permission to appeal. The Supreme Court rejects more applications for permission to appeal than it grants.


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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    They have lost in the High Court and in the Court of Appeal. The headlines are misleading in that they don't yet have permission to take the case to the Supreme Court. All they have done is decided to ask the Supreme Court for permission to appeal. The Supreme Court rejects more applications for permission to appeal than it grants.


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    Im not familar with Trade Union law.I assume GTR have nothing to lose and it is pr to try and show the public it is suppsedly doing its best.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Im not familar with Trade Union law.I assume GTR have nothing to lose and it is pr to try and show the public it is suppsedly doing its best.
    I think that's it. The costs of the appeal are trivial in the great scheme of things.


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    Train companies exist to serve customers first and foremost. Train staff do not have a right to a perpetual job. No-one is entitled to be paid to do something pointless.

    Are they not able to fully automate rail services yet? The sooner they replace rail staff with machines the better. Machines do not throw tantrums and inflict misery on customers for months as a bargaining chip. This is too key a part of the nation's transport infrastructure for this sort of thing to be going on all the time.
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    Good. The sooner these lazy strikers get sacked and we can bring in some actual hard workers the better.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    If Southern is confident that their strike is illegal, they should start threatening to sack staff that participate.
    that would just put them in trouble thoo
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)

    Are they not able to fully automate rail services yet? The sooner they replace rail staff with machines the better. Machines do not throw tantrums and inflict misery on customers for months as a bargaining chip. This is too key a part of the nation's transport infrastructure for this sort of thing to be going on all the time.
    There is no prospect of this within any reasonable timescale. You can see this because HS2, which as an entirely new railway has no Victorian legacy issues is being designed on the assumption that there will not be fully automatic operation.

    Ultimately what needs to be tackled is obsolete working practices and that needs government to force change on railway management. Each company moans about strikes but then continues with practices which empowers trades unions at its own expense.

    Getting rid of routine overtime would be a start. Train companies know how many trains they run. They have models of sickness and holiday absence. How do you run a modern business on the basis that you have to beg staff to turn up in order to deliver the core activity?





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    (Original post by L i b)
    If Southern is confident that their strike is illegal, they should start threatening to sack staff that participate.
    But they ought to make sure it is illegal first

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    The trade unions, instead of striking, should gain the public's support by exposing the details of the Southern franchise awarded by the government. They should know by now that strikes are not affecting the profit Southern's holding company makes every year; the company has nothing to lose from poor service in general. That's what they should be taking Southern to court against, the company is denying passengers the right to a reliable service.
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    (Original post by azizadil1998)
    that would just put them in trouble thoo
    The old law for most of the 20th century was that you could sack strikers whether or not the strike was lawful but if you took any workers back you had to take them all back.

    Reversion to this, would up the ante for small groups of workers like train drivers who are under little or no pressure from going on strike. 70 train driver traineeships at Virgin recently attracted 45,000 applicants.


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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    The trade unions, instead of striking, should gain the public's support by exposing the details of the Southern franchise awarded by the government. They should know by now that strikes are not affecting the profit Southern's holding company makes every year; the company has nothing to lose from poor service in general. That's what they should be taking Southern to court against, the company is denying passengers the right to a reliable service.
    It isn't a franchised line.

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