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    (Original post by Moura)
    Unfortunately university is subsidised for British students because our parents pay tax and international students have to pay the full fee... it can't really be helped as they bring a lot of money to the university and if the fees were cheaper it might not cover the costs and there would be too many applicants.

    I think there should be commonwealth exceptions though it's pretty unfair after everything we've done...
    My parents have been paying tax for 5 years here and we have two houses here yet I don't have a passport so I have to pay double or whatever that British citizens have to pay
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Not outright. Year by year.



    Oxbridge are not nearly as rich as top US universities are. They're very poor compared to them.

    International students on a study visa can't work much even during vacations.



    Undergraduates have hardly anything to do with universities' academic standards. In fact, even doctoral students have only a marginal impact on that front. That's a reason why top US universities don't tend to have that many undergraduates.



    People from a wealthier background are more likely to continue the University's global influence than the poorer ones. How many of Oxford's current 9 heads of government or state* grew up poor?

    *The King of Bhutan, The King of Jordan, The King of Norway, The King of Malaysia, the Prime Minister of UK, the Prime Minister of Australia, the Prime Minister of Hungary, the President of Perú, the State Councillor of Myanmar



    Which one do you think was more influential in helping David Cameron becoming the prime minister?

    His wealthy family background with party connections, and being The Queen's distant cousin and all that.

    Or his first in PPE at Oxford?
    1. I meant, quite clearly, that Oxford should try to become equally wealthy.
    2. International students can work in their own countries, or other countries that allow visitors to work (come pick fruit in Australia).
    3. Undergraduates do have a good deal to do with a university's academic standard. Many academics mention the calibre of undergraduate students – in discussing topics, assisting with research, being interesting rather than frustrating and time-wasting to teach – as a reason for preferring jobs at the top universities. A not negligible few undergraduates at top universities in fact do significant research themselves in their time there.
    And many of the top US universities do have a high proportion of undergraduates – look at Princeton, MIT, Yale. None of them has a lower proportion of undergrads than Oxford. Harvard is anomalous in having many professional schools.
    4. If that is true overseas, why wouldn't it also be true in England? Should Oxford say, 'More Old Etonians, please!'? But in fact the difference that family wealth makes for many people pursuing military, religious, technological, financial or academic careers is very little; another thing altogether, of course, if you're into waving from a horse-drawn chariot.
    And you merely confirm my point. Only leaders from wealthy backgrounds could have gone to Oxford. How many more heads of state/government might Oxford now claim as alumni if it were as generous as Harvard, Yale or Princeton? These universities are not stupid – why do they conduct need-blind admission and offer as much aid as a student needs? Oxbridge would do it too, if they could afford it.
    5. I said nothing about what helped leaders achieve their positions. (That said, what helped Harold Wilson more: a first in PPE or being born to a chemist in Huddersfield? Or Singapore's Lee Kwan Yew or our man Turnbull? Even in the UK Tory Party – what about the grocer's daughter from Kesteven?) My point, if you read it attentively, is that an undergraduate education often imbues the outlook of the student with something of the outlook of their institution and the country in which it is located. One can point to very many early twentieth-century world (economic, political, cultural, military) leaders who became notable anglophiles after an Oxbridge education; these days, the only thing that comes to mind about the UK in China (to take just one example of a rising world power), where one can grab important Harvard graduates by the handful in diverse fields, many humbly born, is posh homosexuals.
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    (Original post by ANM775)
    If you really want to study here and are prepared to wait, then move to the UK and live here for like 3 - 5 years [or for the time to elapse for you to be eligible for government funding] then apply for the universities again.

    simples.
    And just how can this be done? I mean you need a visa. So which visa would do this favour
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    (Original post by gonza nelson)
    And just how can this be done? I mean you need a visa. So which visa would do this favour

    unless I am mistaken a visa is what you need for a temporary stay. You would actually need to become a British citizen to be eligible for government funding for university ..therefore a visa would not help you.

    tbh, it doesn't seem like it's that hard to move to the UK [to live permanently], as we get so much immigration each year that the British people have had enough and have voted for Brexit.


    If I were you, I would look into moving sooner rather than later as once we leave the EU it will be harder for foreigners to come and live here.

    I remember once I was curious about going to university in wales or scotland [I can't remember which] because university was completely free in one of those places. After I did my research it turns out that I would not be eligible for free university there as I lived in England ...and I would need to be living in scotland or wales for 3 - 5 years before I would be eligible for free university
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    (Original post by ANM775)
    unless I am mistaken a visa is what you need for a temporary stay. You would actually need to become a British citizen to be eligible for government funding for university ..therefore a visa would not help you.

    tbh, it doesn't seem like it's that hard to move to the UK [to live permanently], as we get so much immigration each year that the British people have had enough and have voted for Brexit.


    If I were you, I would look into moving sooner rather than later as once we leave the EU it will be harder for foreigners to come and live here.

    I remember once I was curious about going to university in wales or scotland [I can't remember which] because university was completely free in one of those places. After I did my research it turns out that I would not be eligible for free university there as I lived in England ...and I would need to be living in scotland or wales for 3 - 5 years before I would be eligible for free university
    I guess I should take the plane now.
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    (Original post by ANM775)

    tbh, it doesn't seem like it's that hard to move to the UK [to live permanently], as we get so much immigration each year that the British people have had enough and have voted for Brexit.


    If I were you, I would look into moving sooner rather than later as once we leave the EU it will be harder for foreigners to come and live here.
    Guess you've never tried to move to other countries then, or move into the UK.

    'so much immigration' would strike people in most other developed countries as something of an exaggeration – compare the UK's 2.54 net immigrants per 1,000 with Australia's 5.65 or little Singapore's 14.05.

    Once the UK leaves the EU, it would be more difficult for citizens of EU member states to immigrate – no direct effect on non-EU migration.
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    (Original post by alcibiade)
    I am surprised that members of the commonwealth are not offered some kind of dispensation or UK-like fees.
    Student Finance England can't really afford to fund English students, nevermind the potentially 2.3 billion in the Commonwealth (of which 1+ billion alone are in India)...
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    (Original post by gonza nelson)
    I guess I should take the plane now.
    I found this link:

    https://www.gov.uk/student-finance/who-qualifies


    Your nationality or residency status

    You can apply if all of the following apply:

    • you’re a UK national or have ‘settled status’ (no restrictions on how long you can stay)
    • you normally live in England
    • you’ve been living in the UK for 3 years before starting your course


    It does seem like it is indeed possible to do what I suggested.
    To be absolutely sure though, I would give them a call [and lie] and say you are from India and have already been living in the UK for 3 years but you have no money for university ...and ask them what options are available to you. If they say yes, you can receive funding then this will confirm that all you need to do is move to the UK for 3 years and then re apply to universities and you will get funding.
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    (Original post by Mair18919)
    "Unfortunately"?
    Surely you are glad it is?

    I dont see why anyone should expect to be able to study in another country as a right! Why should other people fund you?

    The OP has already been given excellent advice, to do an undergraduate degree in his own country and then top it up with a masters, maybe overseas.



    There are generous scholarships for the very best students. Surely youre not suggesting British people should pay for every Commonwealth student who wants to come here? You must be mad!
    Obviously I meant unfortunately for OP... the rest of my post went on to explain why internationals don't get subsidised...
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    I wouldn't bother putting yourself under too much financial stress. I was in a similar situation to you a few years back, only i'm a UK student who was accepted to a university abroad. The UK doesn't provide any financial support for its own students if they study abroad, annoyingly, unlike most of the rest of the world.

    I decided to just roll with it and see what happens. The costs were nowhere close to what you've mentioned in your OP, but I spent the money that I had managed to save on tuition and accommodation fees for the first year. After realising that staying wasn't financially viable, I had to return home after at the end of that year. It was an enjoyable year in truth, so I don't have too many regrets, but I suppose in the long run it set me back both time-wise (as I wound up applying to UK universities a couple of years later) and financially.
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    (Original post by azizadil1998)
    My parents have been paying tax for 5 years here and we have two houses here yet I don't have a passport so I have to pay double or whatever that British citizens have to pay
    It is unfortunate but your taxes don't just go to university... I would say 5 years of tax doesn't cover the government subsidies of uni... can't you take a citizenship test?
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    (Original post by ANM775)
    I found this link:

    https://www.gov.uk/student-finance/who-qualifies


    [size=5][b][/list]

    It does seem like it is indeed possible to do what I suggested.
    To be absolutely sure though, I would give them a call [and lie] and say you are from India and have already been living in the UK for 3 years but you have no money for university ...and ask them what options are available to you. If they say yes, you can receive funding then this will confirm that all you need to do is move to the UK for 3 years and then re apply to universities and you will get funding.
    What if somehow someone manages to pay at least 50% of the first year, what are the chances this person can get to finance themselves via work or something in later years. Also how possible would it be to get a 1 or 2.1 and head on to grad medicine say after 3 years of undergrad and living in the uk after 4 years(after first degree) and then heading to grad medicine under home fees?
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    (Original post by gonza nelson)
    What if somehow someone manages to pay at least 50% of the first year, what are the chances this person can get to finance themselves via work or something in later years. Also how possible would it be to get a 1 or 2.1 and head on to grad medicine say after 3 years of undergrad and living in the uk after 4 years(after first degree) and then heading to grad medicine under home fees?

    I am not sure [and someone correct me if i'm wrong], but I think you may have to pay the course fee's upfront. I am not sure if they will let you pay like 50% of the first year and then hope you are able to work through the other years to finance it.

    I am not sure on your second question either, but I assume if you were able to cover the fee's it will be possible ....., however without British Status you would be paying all the fee's yourself with no loan for the government, and they probably would want you to pay the fee's upfront. Again i'm not entirely sure on this, perhaps someone else can clarify.
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    (Original post by ANM775)
    I am not sure [and someone correct me if i'm wrong], but I think you may have to pay the course fee's upfront. I am not sure if they will let you pay like 50% of the first year and then hope you are able to work through the other years to finance it.

    I am not sure on your second question either, but I assume if you were able to cover the fee's it will be possible ....., however without British Status you would be paying all the fee's yourself with no loan for the government, and they probably would want you to pay the fee's upfront. Again i'm not entirely sure on this, perhaps someone else can clarify.
    I have an offer with a partial scholarship in some uni. The payment policy suggests you can pay in two installments( around 5000GBP each) due before the last registration date and the beginning of sem 2 respectively. As for the fee status it requires one to have settled in the UK three years prior to the course which is something I was looking into for grad medicine entry. Like I finish Bsc, keep around for 4 years and then head to grad medicine as a home fee status holder. Currently, I can't get into med school as I only hold ABA many schools requiring AAA.
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    (Original post by passé-présent)
    these days, the only thing that comes to mind about the UK in China... is posh homosexuals.
    I wonder if admitting more Chinese to Oxford would be the best way to address that stereotype.
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    (Original post by CurryHead)
    Lemme guess, "Dang immigrants, taking our jobs!!" Cool the nationalistic fervour Gramps.

    Look, I've seen first hand the kind of difference between an education in the UK and an education in India. The fact is, I've got into Oxford, and the competitive part is over. You haven't seen the kind of mad rush the kids here go through to get into a decent uni.
    This doesn't mean I'm not applying in India. I know better than to put my eggs in one basket.
    I understand what you are saying obviously you are going to apply for the best opportunity you can get, but again why did you apply if you have no way of raising the coin to attend?




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    (Original post by azizadil1998)
    My parents have been paying tax for 5 years here and we have two houses here yet I don't have a passport so I have to pay double or whatever that British citizens have to pay
    As far as I understand in order to qualify for UK domestic student status you have to be a resident in the uk for 3 years prior to the commencement of your degree program
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    (Original post by Moura)
    So would you say it's your first language? Do you speak it better than whatever your regional indian language is?
    For a lot of Indians English is their first or second language. English education is mandatory in most Indian schools
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    (Original post by passé-présent)
    1. I meant, quite clearly, that Oxford should try to become equally wealthy.
    2. International students can work in their own countries, or other countries that allow visitors to work (come pick fruit in Australia).
    3. Undergraduates do have a good deal to do with a university's academic standard. Many academics mention the calibre of undergraduate students – in discussing topics, assisting with research, being interesting rather than frustrating and time-wasting to teach – as a reason for preferring jobs at the top universities. A not negligible few undergraduates at top universities in fact do significant research themselves in their time there.
    And many of the top US universities do have a high proportion of undergraduates – look at Princeton, MIT, Yale. None of them has a lower proportion of undergrads than Oxford. Harvard is anomalous in having many professional schools.
    4. If that is true overseas, why wouldn't it also be true in England? Should Oxford say, 'More Old Etonians, please!'? But in fact the difference that family wealth makes for many people pursuing military, religious, technological, financial or academic careers is very little; another thing altogether, of course, if you're into waving from a horse-drawn chariot.
    And you merely confirm my point. Only leaders from wealthy backgrounds could have gone to Oxford. How many more heads of state/government might Oxford now claim as alumni if it were as generous as Harvard, Yale or Princeton? These universities are not stupid – why do they conduct need-blind admission and offer as much aid as a student needs? Oxbridge would do it too, if they could afford it.
    5. I said nothing about what helped leaders achieve their positions. (That said, what helped Harold Wilson more: a first in PPE or being born to a chemist in Huddersfield? Or Singapore's Lee Kwan Yew or our man Turnbull? Even in the UK Tory Party – what about the grocer's daughter from Kesteven?) My point, if you read it attentively, is that an undergraduate education often imbues the outlook of the student with something of the outlook of their institution and the country in which it is located. One can point to very many early twentieth-century world (economic, political, cultural, military) leaders who became notable anglophiles after an Oxbridge education; these days, the only thing that comes to mind about the UK in China (to take just one example of a rising world power), where one can grab important Harvard graduates by the handful in diverse fields, many humbly born, is posh homosexuals.
    1. And how do you propose they do that? To be rich, you increase your income and cut your expenses. You want Oxford to offer scholarships to international students, ie spend more, but you have no suggestions on how they can make more money.

    US universities have more income and endowment for three main reasons:
    A. Government funds private universities more in the US than the UK does for their public universities;
    B. Richer and more generous alumni;
    C. Industry funding.

    All of them are largely due to the fact that they're in the US, a country with a much bigger economy and higher incomes. B also due to the fact that top universities offer rich patrons to buy their way in (that's how people without an undergrad degree got into Harvard for a master's or how people like GWB got in).

    So what can Oxford do? Move to the US? Declare Oxfordshire independent then join the US? Open places for home students to "self-finance" their undergraduate degree? Stop doing research? Stop hiring?

    2. What's your point? Are you talking about international students at Oxford? If not that's just totally irrelevant.

    I'm not sure about Australia, but fruit-picking people are usually on a working holiday visa, not a study visa. Working holiday visas let you work, study visa is for you to study.

    3. If those academics are working at Oxford now, it means the system is working. The undergraduates are good enough already and so there's no need to spend money for perhaps marginal and insignificant improvement. After all, only a very small portion helps with research so they definitely don't need everyone to be very capable.

    Also, many universities adopt a dual system with professors mostly engage in research and lecturers do most of the teaching. So there's one than one way to attract those academics if they indeed see that as an important factor.

    Perhaps you should look things up before making a claim: Oxford (51%), Yale (44%), MIT (40%), Princeton (67%). All very different proportions. And i recall saying that even doctoral students have little to do with the universities' academic standards, so your mentioning just the portion of undergrads is irrelevant, when they all have tiny student populations, proving my point you don't need students to succeed academically.

    4. Likely none. No university in the world compares to Oxford in the field of politics. As far as I can see, Yale and Princeton have no current head and Harvard has 3, including the local one who's leaving in a week. Even locally, Oxford completely dominates - 27 PMs versus 8 US presidents for Harvard. So you don't have a point here. The US universities do it not because they'll get more alumni in the important fields, but because if they don't, they could lose government funding. A university like MIT gets 90% of its income from the government, Oxford around 40%.

    5. The Oxford degree likely had contributed very little to their political success whatever their background.

    Wilson came from a political family. Lee's family was never actually poor. Turnbull didn't come from a poor family. May was at least middle class.
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    Might not work but have you tried starting a croudfunding kinda thing on something like kickstarter where anyone who wants to help you can donate, because every little helps
 
 
 
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