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Uk Has Less Progressive Laws Than Morocco After It Bans The Burqa Watch

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      (Original post by Good bloke)
      How about a t-shirt with one of these messages?

      All gays should be castrated!

      Kill the blacks!

      Shoot Jeremy Corbyn now!

      Deport all Moslems!

      Fry a lesbian!

      Hitler was right! Gas the Jews!
      Is this really all that bad though :holmes:


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      I'm joking pls don't ban me
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      (Original post by Lord Gaben)
      If a Pastafarian can wear a colander on his/her head in public places, then I see nothing wrong with the Burka.
      That's' a farfallacy.
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      (Original post by StrawbAri)
      Is this really all that bad though :holmes:


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      I'm joking pls don't ban me
      Expressing a non-defamatory opinion would be one thing, which I believe should be legal, no matter what the message, but incitement to violence or criminal acts in a clothing message definitely should be banned.
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      (Original post by liberty cap)

      verboten!
      To be fair, it is a part of his country's history. Or maybe not, what is the Hewitt's family tree like?
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      (Original post by StrawbAri)
      Is this really all that bad though :holmes:


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      I'm joking pls don't ban me

      Expressing a non-defamatory opinion would be one thing, which I believe should be legal, no matter what the message, but incitement to violence or criminal acts in a clothing message definitely should be banned.
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      Right, well guess its time to ban gloves too
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      (Original post by Damien96)
      An anecdote does not make it better. That foreigners are not forced to wear it is hardly deserving of applause. That Saudi women are forced, under the threat of death, is the more pressing matter, your comfort aside.

      But OK, about your general point. The problem is many women in the UK do not have the choice. The polarisation of communities in this country is also more important than you having a shy day, as is the problem of criminals, of all types, using it as a way to avoid detection.

      I would ask you to view the problem beyond your somewhat strange clothing compulsions and buy a hat.
      True, but we're talking about the progressiveness of the UK here. Haha, I own many hats.

      The issues with banning the burqa as far as I can see are:
      1) the right to freedom of speech and expression. Further, the right to manifest one's religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice and observance. Banning religious clothing is a clear violation of this and every women who wears a burqa is under that protection.
      2) religion is not equal to terrorism and crime
      3) how much right does the government have to dictate what people can and cannot wear? Article 8 of the HRA is the right to respect to one's private life and personal identity. What precedent does that set?

      It's certainly an interesting debate. I think Switzerland recently banned burqas and ski masks in public places like hospitals and shopping centres. In this way, they banned all headdress as not to be discriminatory.
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      (Original post by epsilondelta)
      True, but we're talking about the progressiveness of the UK here. Haha, I own many hats.

      The issues with banning the burqa as far as I can see are:
      1) the right to freedom of speech and expression. Further, the right to manifest one's religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice and observance. Banning religious clothing is a clear violation of this and every women who wears a burqa is under that protection.
      2) religion is not equal to terrorism and crime
      3) how much right does the government have to dictate what people can and cannot wear? Article 8 of the HRA is the right to respect to one's private life and personal identity. What precedent does that set?

      It's certainly an interesting debate. I think Switzerland recently banned burqas and ski masks in public places like hospitals and shopping centres. In this way, they banned all headdress as not to be discriminatory.
      I agree, it isn't a black and white debate, but the burqa is not religious dress. Islam calls for modesty, the burqa is an extreme interpretation of that from the very worst excesses of the religion. Just have a look at the national dress of the various regions that Islam is now the majority in.

      At the very least we need to stop framing this debate as one of religious freedom against imperialism/western supremacy.
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      (Original post by Aaron Bernbaum)
      Right, well guess its time to ban gloves too
      I realise you may not be able to distinguish from your arse and elbow, but surely the face and hands is an easy one?
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      The people saying that women should have a choice might actually have a point if women wore it out of free choice.They don't.They wear it because Islam compels them to with the threat of hell.Also it is frowned upon if they don't whether that is by family or by the community.Either way it's not a free choice. Escepicially not in the many Muslim countries where not covering up is a crime.The burqa is a symbol of oppression and extremism and it is beyond me why anybody would wish to keep it in Europe.
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      (Original post by Damien96)
      I agree, it isn't a black and white debate, but the burqa is not religious dress. Islam calls for modesty, the burqa is an extreme interpretation of that from the very worst excesses of the religion. Just have a look at the national dress of the various regions that Islam is now the majority in.

      At the very least we need to stop framing this debate as one of religious freedom against imperialism/western supremacy.
      It doesnt matter whether its religious or not. people have the right to wear what they want except for limited circumstances. Do you expect the law to say what you must wear? Far from proving (without any proof or rational argument (expecting too much)) the UK is less progressive, the situation is quite the opposite.

      Would you think it was more progressive to ban you from posting on these forums?
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      (Original post by Robby2312)
      The people saying that women should have a choice might actually have a point if women wore it out of free choice.They don't.They wear it because Islam compels them to with the threat of hell.Also it is frowned upon if they don't whether that is by family or by the community.Either way it's not a free choice. Escepicially not in the many Muslim countries where not covering up is a crime.The burqa is a symbol of oppression and extremism and it is beyond me why anybody would wish to keep it in Europe.
      Exactly.

      Thankfully the debate is shifting, but it didn't help when France missed the point and tried to ban the burkini. The line has to be covering the face. At the very least we have to condemn the burqa as a society.
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      (Original post by Good bloke)
      How about a t-shirt with one of these messages?

      All gays should be castrated!

      Kill the blacks!

      Shoot Jeremy Corbyn now!

      Deport all Moslems!

      Fry a lesbian!

      Hitler was right! Gas the Jews!
      Think this is where the mistake lies, wearing a Burka is not the same as spreading those messages. Those messages spread hatred whilst the Burka is simply a piece of clothing that some women choose to wear. Surely it would be perverse to say that in order to fit into society you have to wear xyz. I can see a "ban" being justified in public spaces such as trains, schools, hospitals etc but an outright ban would only deepen the divide between certain Muslim communities and society.
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      (Original post by Damien96)
      Does your libertarian stance on clothing extend to the Swastika?
      Yes
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      (Original post by Zargabaath)
      Yes
      In that case you are at least morally consistent. Unfortunately there are not many people being forced to wear swastikas and it makes a poor disguise for criminality.

      Do you agree society should at least condemn these things?
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      (Original post by Good bloke)
      How about a t-shirt with one of these messages?

      All gays should be castrated!

      Kill the blacks!

      Shoot Jeremy Corbyn now!

      Deport all Moslems!

      Fry a lesbian!

      Hitler was right! Gas the Jews!
      Okay, let me amend it, no garment that does not incite violence or hate towards a group of people with an inborn characteristic or a specific person should be banned.

      As idiotic and stupid statement as it is, "Deport all Moslems!" should not be banned, as it's an ideology people choose to follow.
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      (Original post by Damien96)
      In that case you are at least morally consistent. Unfortunately there are not many people being forced to wear swastikas and it makes a poor disguise for criminality.

      Do you agree society should at least condemn these things?
      Yes, that's how I want them to be removed from society. Through social rejection (like the nazi swastika) as opposed to being forced by the state.

      I also believe on private property, the owner should be allowed to stipulate any clothing rules they wish.
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      (Original post by Damien96)
      Adding to a list that includes Malaysia and Tunisia. Yet here we are, tolerating women in this country are being put in bags. We can pat ourselves on the back all we like for showing tolerance to intolerance, but women in this country are suffering.

      Let's be clear, the burqa is not Islamic, let alone cultural to Muslim majority countries. So let's not cowardly hide behind the moral inconsistencies of multi-culturalism and have a truly progressive multi-ethnic society.

      http://thesatedire.com/features/isla...-week-morocco/
      After the tube failed to spot a practise IED we need to be vigilant that includes banning disguises such as the burqa and balaclavas
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      (Original post by Damien96)
      Let's be clear, the burqa is not Islamic
      Yes it is. Your disagreeing with that Islamic interpretation is irrelevant. The point here is that certain Islamic tendencies ought to be reformed.

      The problem with those on the left who wax lyrical on multiculturalism, as you touched upon, is their rather naive understanding of integration. The burqa (and niqab) ought to be exceptions to our freedom of choice in clothing in the same way that most of our choice-based freedoms have harm-based exceptions, including speech and expression. The most common reply is that wearing a burqa harms nobody, despite its being a form of indoctrinated self-harm and that it is in fact harmful to others in its expression of relegating women to invisibility and property. The latter is harmful to new generations, to Western culture, to feminism, to public security, and to our system of ethics. We are past the point where this needs to be debated. The other Abrahamic religions (and feminism itself) have come too far for anyone to take seriously the argument that the burqa is not other-harming and that it does not impede cultural integration. The UK will eventually follow suit, though I wouldn't hold your breath under May's term.
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      (Original post by SirAlexFerguson)
      the Burka is simply a piece of clothing that some women choose to wear.
      Which why we see women in the ISIS-held areas of Syria and Iraq choosing to get shot of full veil garments the minute they have been liberated from IS control, isn't it?

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7076221.html

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxj3rbdFFZU

      If you believe women generally wear these abominations out of choice, and are not held in thrall by the male-dominated family, in turn led by fundamentalist Wahhabi and Deobandi imams in Saudi- and Pakistan-funded mosques, you are very naive.

      Here's one Moslem woman's view:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...d-streets.html

      and many more:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wom...ol-debate.html

      Ironically, ISIS has banned the burkha in some areas, as it represents a security risk (which is, of course, also a potential problem in the west).
     
     
     
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