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Oxford academic warns of Brexit disaster. Watch

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    (Original post by jape)
    He clearly implied there that Islam has problems unrelated to the west, and you reflexively call him an SJW? How dense can one person be?

    Also, "Oxford Academic".
    People are born inherently unequal. K?
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    (Original post by sayan98)
    People are born inherently unequal. K?
    Nobody's disagreeing with you...
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    (Original post by jape)
    Nobody's disagreeing with you...
    So what's the problem/
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    (Original post by sayan98)
    So what's the problem/
    I wish you'd tell me. You're the one name-calling and being hyper-defensive.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Our experience on the Remain side is that no amount of evidence matters to Brexitoids.
    There is no "evidence" because no-one knows what the deal will look like. If you had a SHRED of intellectual honesty you would admit that.

    The one thing we DO know is that all the scare stories promulgated by the Bank of England, the Treasury and Number 10 under Project Fear were lies.

    Or at best, absurdly, criminally inaccurate.

    All that happened was that an overvalued currency corrected before we had the second biggest growth of an advanced economy last year. With no housing crash, no depression, not even the promised third world war!

    You will say Brexit hasn't happened yet. But all your "experts" said this would happen immediately after the vote.

    As Andy Haldane, Chief Economist at the Bank of England admitted only the other day, referring to it all as the Economists' "Michael Fish moment":

    “It’s true, and again fair cop…If you look at how the consumer performed during the course of the last year it’s almost as though the referendum had not taken place. In terms of the real things like pay and jobs not very much happened during the course of last year. It’s pretty much business as usual. The spending power in people’s pockets was not materially dented… Maybe some of the scarier stories politically will be seen to be just that – scare stories.”

    Evidence? Don't make me laugh.
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    (Original post by jape)
    I wish you'd tell me. You're the one name-calling and being hyper-defensive.
    Anti-racism is anti-white.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Our experience on the Remain side is that no amount of evidence matters to Brexitoids.
    Fitt said a hard Brexit "would probably be the biggest disaster for the university sector in many years."

    Frankly, that is crap.

    If you make widgets, a hard Brexit means that you have no impact on the standards the EU sets for widgets and EU importers of UK widgets will have to pay input duties on those widgets. If UK widget production is subsidised by the UK government, the EU may impose anti-dumping duties. British widget producers may struggle to recruit enough staff without unskilled labour from the EU.

    But none of that relates across to higher education.

    Three things matter to HE. One is that the qualifications offered in the UK continue to be recognised within the EU. The others are related. They are participation in EU funded research projects and replacing lost EU funding None of these are likely to be affected by the hardness or softness of Brexit.

    UK immigration controls will have a greater effect on university kitchens and halls of residence than they will have on university labs.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Our experience on the Remain side is that no amount of evidence matters to Brexitoids.
    Could just as easily (and just as speciously) say the same for re-tards.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Our experience on the Remain side is that no amount of evidence matters to Brexitoids.
    Because that's why we had a referendum isnt it. To divide the populace and make sure that no decision will be accepted as both "sides" are constantly trying to make the other seem stupid.

    We didnt hold a referendum and accept the result like we should in a democracy, we held the vote, now we're bickering as if the democratic process just didnt matter.

    Know that even if we remained in the EU, we would be doing just as bad/good.

    Besides, almost all "effects" of this referendum is sensationalism stoked continuously by the media. As can be evidenced by this threads topic.

    No one would give a crap what he said if he lived in Reeth.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    They are participation in EU funded research projects and replacing lost EU funding None of these are likely to be affected by the hardness or softness of Brexit.
    I don't think it's correct to be so confident. Roughly 16% of UK university research income is directly from the EU or EU-funded organisations at present. Another 10-15% comes from projects that run under the aegis of the EU or EU organisations where participation is a concern after Brexit. The government have so far only committed to a specific pot of money to replace this, there is no ongoing open-ended commitment. As with the attitude to things like social care, the government make a large cut and then claim that the very small pot of reserve money they have offered as a figleaf/patch will somehow mystically take care of it. The truth is, there's going to be a very big funding gap in UK university research in a few years time unless there are commitments to permit the leading research organisations and RG institutions in this country to continue participation.

    This is the same British government that time and again has got things wrong on international participation - for example, trying to thwart the ERC, which the UK is now the main beneficiary of and trying to block for years UK membership in many important programmes that have since turned out to be big money-generators like space research.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I don't think it's correct to be so confident. Roughly 16% of UK university research income is directly from the EU or EU-funded organisations at present. Another 10-15% comes from projects that run under the aegis of the EU or EU organisations where participation is a concern after Brexit. The government have so far only committed to a specific pot of money to replace this, there is no ongoing open-ended commitment. As with the attitude to things like social care, the government make a large cut and then claim that the very small pot of reserve money they have offered as a figleaf/patch will somehow mystically take care of it. The truth is, there's going to be a very big funding gap in UK university research in a few years time unless there are commitments to permit the leading research organisations and RG institutions in this country to continue participation.
    But he was asked about a hard Brexit. These are essentially concerns about a Brexit at all, or about the willingness of the UK government to fund UK research.

    The hardness or softness of Brexit are questions about the markets in goods, services and labour.

    Universities don't sell goods; there is a more or less worldwide free market in education services (certainly there are no tariff barriers) and it is improbable that any restrictions on the movement of labour will significantly impact academics.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...MJ2IZKvo2bPtVQ

    On the other hand, the Governor of the Bank of England has now come out & said the EU will be economical worst off than the UK if a "hard" Brexit happens.
    So because the EU lose more than the UK loses, a lose-lose situation is still preferable?
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    "Oxford academic warns disaster!!!!"

    "Oxford brookes" :rofl:

    And, Cambridge is super competitive. I don't think any student is too bothered about a drop in applications: just gives them a better chance if anything lmfao
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    (Original post by draculaura)
    "Oxford academic warns disaster!!!!"

    "Oxford brookes" :rofl:

    And honorary fellow of Lincoln College, Oxford where he was a student


    And, Cambridge is super competitive. I don't think any student is too bothered about a drop in applications: just gives them a better chance if anything lmfao
    What is best for a 17 year old applicant is not necessarily best for the university.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    And honorary fellow of Lincoln College, Oxford where he was a student
    Well, I'll let him *partly* off. It's still misleading - it makes him sound as if HE is an Oxford academic / professor. Not that Brookes a bad university, it's just average. It's like saying a "Liverpool academic warns disaster". They're using the 'Oxford' bit to scare people more.

    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    What is best for a 17 year old applicant is not necessarily best for the university.
    I say that because they're posting it on a place called "thestudentroom".
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    (Original post by draculaura)
    Well, I'll let him *partly* off. It's still misleading - it makes him sound as if HE is an Oxford academic / professor. Not that Brookes a bad university, it's just average. It's like saying a "Liverpool academic warns disaster". They're using the 'Oxford' bit to scare people more.
    He hasn't misrepresented the position; this is the press.

    Government committees seem to like to use the VC of Brookes as a representative of new universities. His predecessor Janet Beer was always being called to give evidence as well.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    He hasn't misrepresented the position; this is the press.

    Government committees seem to like to use the VC of Brookes as a representative of new universities. His predecessor Janet Beer was always being called to give evidence as well.
    I know. I never said he did. It's the anti-Brexit press who, like I said, are trying to scare people using "Oxford" because people assume if they're an academic from a top uni then they've definitely got to be right. Whatever fits their narrative, even if they have to twist it.
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    I think the OP has set up a trap here for Brexiters.

    He wants you to focus on the fact that this was a guy from Oxford Brookes not Oxford so you dismiss his views just on that, when he knows there's an army of academics at Oxford, Cambridge and especially LSE who are repeatedly saying Brexit will be a disaster.

    As for the issue on how will Brexit affect higher education, the real concerns the sector have are not about Brexit, but about the direction this government is taking higher education: they are squeezing funding, bringing in new box ticking red tape on them with the teaching excellence framework, and limiting their ability to bring in overseas students so squeezing their ability to raise revenue privately.

    Brexit isn't going to cause these direct harms to the HE sector. The UK government could come out and say, we will use the savings from the money we will no longer pay to the EU, to increase the amount of funding to the HE sector relative to what it currently gets from the EU, we will scrap the teaching excellence framework, and we will liberalise visa rules for overseas students. None of those are things that it needs to negotiate with the EU.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I don't think it's correct to be so confident. Roughly 16% of UK university research income is directly from the EU or EU-funded organisations at present. Another 10-15% comes from projects that run under the aegis of the EU or EU organisations where participation is a concern after Brexit. The government have so far only committed to a specific pot of money to replace this, there is no ongoing open-ended commitment. As with the attitude to things like social care, the government make a large cut and then claim that the very small pot of reserve money they have offered as a figleaf/patch will somehow mystically take care of it. The truth is, there's going to be a very big funding gap in UK university research in a few years time unless there are commitments to permit the leading research organisations and RG institutions in this country to continue participation.

    This is the same British government that time and again has got things wrong on international participation - for example, trying to thwart the ERC, which the UK is now the main beneficiary of and trying to block for years UK membership in many important programmes that have since turned out to be big money-generators like space research.
    So this is your "evidence" is it?

    The ONLY argument you are now advancing on this subject (something of a pet one for you) is that EU funding on university projects might be cut?

    Is this all you have got, seriously?

    There is no EU money is is OUR money. We are the second biggest net contributor to EU funds. Excluding Germany, Britain’s contribution is more than the total net contribution of the 26 other EU states combined.

    All that will happen post Brexit is that we, as a nation, will get to decide what university projects we decide to contribute to. There could be more, there could be less. It will probably be the about the same. You know that very well. What was I saying about intellectual honesty on the Remain side in my last post?

    You are like Nick Clegg who in the Remain media witch hunt of Gove for revealing that the Queen backed Brexit, claimed "he had no recollection of the conversation."

    Today he admits that it took place. In other words he lied.

    Evidence? Don't make me laugh.
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    Brookes people saying they're from Oxford is like the most normal thing in the world, it's actually more surprising when they don't do it.

    I've heard it all. "I studied in Oxford" "Just finished uni in Oxford" "Where did I go to university? Oxford" "In Oxford, we did..."
 
 
 
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