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    This is rather old but, what does everyone make of it anyway?

    "The Pope will call on leaders of the Roman Catholic church today to attack feminist ideologies which assert that men and women are fundamentally the same. "

    "The Vatican yesterday depicted what it claimed were women's characteristic traits: 'Listening, welcoming, humility, faithfulness, praise and waiting.' "

    "'To avoid the domination of one sex or the other, their differences tend to be denied, viewed as mere effects of historical and cultural conditioning.' "

    "However, combining work and family has 'characteristics different from those in the case of men', says the document, which argues for a 'just valuing of the work of women within the family'. Ratzinger does not say how this is to be done, but it is clear he sees it as a way of encouraging women to spend as much time as possible in the home. "

    - http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story...273140,00.html
    - http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story...273859,00.html

    This is the highest, most respected priest in the world, head of the Church!Is he sexist? Prejudiced against women? Theses views are taken from the roots of Catholic teachings.

    So, in our liberal, free society today, must we now work to eradicate the Pope and his "extremist" views?
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    The Pope on women?

    Good on him! Still going at his age!
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    The Pope on women?

    Good on him! Still going at his age!
    From a man of your stature , I really didn't expect something so kiddish!
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    I think that it is just another thing that the catholic church stands for which isn't really in tune with modern life. The pope doesn't really seem to be saying that women shouldn't be equal rather that they aren't the same as men which in some senses is true. However I don't think it is fair to say that the primary role of the women in todays society should be to be a wife and mother. I don't think the popes views could be considered dangerous they just seem to make the catholic church seem dated.
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    The idea that women cannot be priests as they lack what my theology teacher termed "correct traits" and that God had given them a different role in life seemed very sexist to me.
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    This is from the same Church that asserted HIV can 'swim' through condoms, so it's hardly surprising.
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    The problem with the catholic church is that rather than adapting to the developments of rights and discoveries it atempts to maintain a very conservative view of things. The church could be a very credible and helpful institution had it worked in order to promote the christian messages of mutual love understanding and friendship rather than clinging to old and in my opinion rather opressive ideas. Theres no reason why mutual tolerance, forgiveness and love as advocated by the founders of the religion could not co-exist with modern human rights and scientific technology. However, a large ammount of conservatives insist on trying to preserve a society discriminative against many social groups and ignorant of scientific discoveries. What these peopel do not realise is that they hurt their religion and undermines its crediability rather than preserving it.
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    (Original post by Llamas)
    This is from the same Church that asserted HIV can 'swim' through condoms, so it's hardly surprising.
    such a progressive organisation...
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    The problem with the catholic church is that rather than adapting to the developments of rights and discoveries it atempts to maintain a very conservative view of things. The church could be a very credible and helpful institution had it worked in order to promote the christian messages of mutual love understanding and friendship rather than clinging to old and in my opinion rather opressive ideas. Theres no reason why mutual tolerance, forgiveness and love as advocated by the founders of the religion could not co-exist with modern human rights and scientific technology. However, a large ammount of conservatives insist on trying to preserve a society discriminative against many social groups and ignorant of scientific discoveries. What these peopel do not realise is that they hurt their religion and undermines its crediability rather than preserving it.
    Personally I doubt a religion can survive if it is forced to change. The whole idea of a religion is surely that its moral values are correct as they come from a God/Gods. A fixed reference point which tells us what is right and wrong. As we have seen more and more is that there is no such thing as right and wrong and what we percieve as right and wrong is constantly changing. If the religion changes then it loses claim to be divinely inspired and hence is unappealing to its followers.
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    (Original post by Incomplete)
    Personally I doubt a religion can survive if it is forced to change. The whole idea of a religion is surely that its moral values are correct as they come from a God/Gods. A fixed reference point which tells us what is right and wrong. As we have seen more and more is that there is no such thing as right and wrong and what we percieve as right and wrong is constantly changing. If the religion changes then it loses claim to be divinely inspired and hence is unappealing to its followers.
    Although you may be logically correct, I doubt that is how things work in practice. Most religions have changed quite a lot since they were first founded.
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    Whoever has given me a negative rep, I suspect that it is Huntroyde,
    You're far too kind!!
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Although you may be logically correct, I doubt that is how things work in practice. Most religions have changed quite a lot since they were first founded.
    Support for christainity (bums on seats) as well as the power of their message in western societies have also declined.

    I hope for the good of humanity similar things happen with Islam and Hinduism.
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    But if a religion doesn't change then it cannot survive either. Society changes and so does its ideals. People are no longer accepting that women are less improtant than men and if the catholic church is sticking by this how are they going to encourage new people to join the faith and pass it on to the next generation?
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    (Original post by ovalorbit)
    But if a religion doesn't change then it cannot survive either. Society changes and so does its ideals. People are no longer accepting that women are less improtant than men and if the catholic church is sticking by this how are they going to encourage new people to join the faith and pass it on to the next generation?
    which is why organised religion of this sort is doomed
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    Perhaps he feels he can afford to hold the church back and stick to the old ideas because he's going to die soon. And when he goes, and a new pope comes, some slightly more progressive ideas will come with.
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    (Original post by Incomplete)
    Support for christainity (bums on seats) as well as the power of their message in western societies have also declined.

    I hope for the good of humanity similar things happen with Islam and Hinduism.
    The truth is that Islam has been preserved since the beginning of time. No matter how "primitive" people class it, as a person pointed out in another post, women in the west only started to enjoy rights of owning property some 50 years ago, whereas the laws of inheritance and ownership were revealed in the Qur'an 1400 years ago.

    In some instances I agree with the Pope. Women and Men are equal, but not the same, Men have certain reponsibilites and Women have certain responsibilities. As an intellect pointed out in one of the articles in the Guardian site, Women have an innate quality for caring. Im not saying Women should be confined to the home, rather the woman should prioritise family life over career, though many will disagree with me.
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    (Original post by jamal1425)
    The truth is that Islam has been preserved since the beginning of time. No matter how "primitive" people class it, as a person pointed out in another post, women in the west only started to enjoy rights of owning property some 50 years ago, whereas the laws of inheritance and ownership were revealed in the Qur'an 1400 years ago.

    In some instances I agree with the Pope. Women and Men are equal, but not the same, Men have certain reponsibilites and Women have certain responsibilities. As an intellect pointed out in one of the articles in the Guardian site, Women have an innate quality for caring. Im not saying Women should be confined to the home, rather the woman should prioritise family life over career, though many will disagree with me.
    I think what he meant was that there is need for a secularisation of many Arab nations and Muslimc communities. Basicly, we dont mind people being muslim, but I have personally little left for the extremists who insist that wommen should be completely covered up and beaten if they talk to a man without their husbands consent.
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    (Original post by jamal1425)
    The truth is that Islam has been preserved since the beginning of time. No matter how "primitive" people class it, as a person pointed out in another post, women in the west only started to enjoy rights of owning property some 50 years ago, whereas the laws of inheritance and ownership were revealed in the Qur'an 1400 years ago.

    In some instances I agree with the Pope. Women and Men are equal, but not the same, Men have certain reponsibilites and Women have certain responsibilities. As an intellect pointed out in one of the articles in the Guardian site, Women have an innate quality for caring. Im not saying Women should be confined to the home, rather the woman should prioritise family life over career, though many will disagree with me.
    Indeed I do disagree. The quran and its "women are equal but have a different role to men" stuff bothers me. Defining how a woman should behave only serves to limit them. It's their choice, their body, their life.
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    personally, i have no real objection to the views as detailed in the article. its an entirely valid opinion and certainly one that is considered 'in the mainstream'.
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    "Basicly, we dont mind people being muslim, but I have personally little left for the extremists who insist that wommen should be completely covered up and beaten if they talk to a man without their husbands consent."
    __________________

    This is disturbing, when you talk like that, ie "We dont mind" you make it come across as if you are this overseeing power or force that controls who follows what or who does what, by the use of your "WE" pronoun.

    If only you take some time to read into WHY women are instructed to veil themselves, it is not simply covering cos your husband is going to beat you. This ia grave misconception, why people cling onto theses false ideas! Islam places a high emphasis on modesty, and with sexual permissiveness and rape and other things norm in todays society, the virtue of veiling should be seen as a rescue or saviour!!

    "Beaten if they talk to a man without husbands consent" - who did you get this from, weejiemei>? A woman can speak to a man other than her husband yes, without his consent, yes, but what sort of a man with any bit of senes, would want his wife talking to strangers, is this not how relationshios outside of marriage start? Then mariage breaks down, divorce, etc, etc. This is all too common nowadays, and it's really saddening.

    And to fishpaste, everyhting is defined in life anyway as it is,
    you are always following orders, rules - are you , is your life not being defined? You know you cant do 100 miles on the motorway, you know you cant kill your neighbour because he trodded all over your plants. Mate, we're all defined by laws and rules!
 
 
 
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