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    (Original post by sashh)

    back to the old "women are either virgins or whores" argument.

    Prostitutes in Islamic countries wear veils - they are still prostitutes.

    But then in islam rape only occurs if there are 4 male muslim witnesses, otherwise it's the woman's fault and she will be punished.
    or 17 female ones

    What this highlights is how different representations of the same religion cause so much confusion that religion is in the main damaging to society.

    (Original post by jamal1425)
    When I said Rape was norm now, I meant that Rape is common-place now, and I didn't justify rape, certainly not, it is one of the most evil

    A point was made that:

    "Women should have the freedom to dress how they wish without being raped. "She was dressing provocatively" does not cut it with rape, not for a second."

    I disagree. Prostitutes dress in a certain way for a certain purpose, nuns dress in a certain way for a ceratin purpose, I'#m not equating all women to prostitutes, but how many rapes and subsequent murders are there of young women in their early 20's out for a drink , or clubbing or whatever? Many. But the point I am trying to make is that with maximum exposure and minimal censorship as it were, in todays society, theses young women clubbing or out partying , dressed improperly, revealing their bodies, are going to get evil looks from some men. And how many examples of nuns getting raped are there?

    There was also a point about trust in relationships, and about women not being able to talk to strangers. Islam necessitates that there shoudl be minimum contact between the sexes, this is not to bring about a barrier between the two sexes, rather to keep their modesty in tact. Modesty, especially in todays scoiety, Im sure everyne will agree is gone completely. Not so long ago, women had more modesty in Brtian, when people were generally more "religious".

    And on the issue of veiling, the women who choose not to veil, wear their own clothes right? But are they not submitting to the wims and sesires of men??? How you may ask? WEll, all or most of theses fashionable designer clothes are designed by men, sick perverted men, who design clothes to please themselves, or maximise exposure, becuase it pleases them. When women wear theses clothes, knowing fully they are exposing, they are not wearing clothes - as Adam and Eve covered themselves, out of modesty- rather they are wearing clothes to draw in men with perveted minds.

    About men veiling, well there are ettiqutes men should also follow when it comes to modesty. This involves minimum contact with starngers (i.e. non relate femlaes) because when a man and a woman are alone together, the devil encompanis them. Islam does not instruct men to veil because it is a well known fact that men have a more innate desire for women, then do women of men, althoguh that is not to say women are inferior in that sense. A womesn' source of beauty is her face, so does it not make sense to veil the face in order to protct oneselves, and preserve her beauty for her husband only. It is not an issue of trust, about not letting your wife speak to other men, it is a matter of protecting youirselves from falling into sin. And yes trust can be the reason for a marriage failing, but far too often nowadasy, a marriage breaks down becuase of a seceret affair or something of that sort.

    A day after the emergence of a report on the rape of nuns by priests, the Roman Catholic Aid Agency, Cafod, has confirmed that it showed the Vatican the report seven years ago.

    The leaked report said that priests and missionaries across several continents were forcing nuns to have sex with them.
    You're wrong.
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