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    (Original post by Wōden)
    Allowing in vast numbers of migrants will ultimately destroy the unique ethnic and cultural identity of an indigenous people. That is what we want to protect against. Japan does it, they are unashamedly nationalistic, and whilst they do allow a small amount of immigration, it is still made it very clear that Japan is for the Japanese and that guests must conform to their culture and customs. And nobody bats an eyelid at this, Japan is not called "racist" or "xenophobic". Why are the Europeans, especially the English, denied the same right?
    I believe the the problem is that the issue of immigrations has been hijacked by ultra nationalists in Europe as other serious political parties have been ignoring the question. That is the case here in Sweden were the big political parties have been ignoring the issue for years which has resulted in a once small populistic party with 3% of the votes 15 years ago, now has ammassed over 10%. All the major parties see the problem, but they are too afraid of talking about because someone will call them racist.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    you do realise that we haven't actually left the EU and any financial volatility can be expected from an uncertain political environment.
    Yes, but it also depends on what type of uncertainty it is, and whether it provides for more upside potential or more downside potential.

    If Brexit were definitely good for the economy (but we were just uncertain as to how good it would be), we wouldn't have a problem. But it's the much larger immediate downside potential that has led to, not only financial volatility, but an overall deterioration in our prosperity.

    Also the value of currency has gone down due to 'quantitative easing' and other factors.
    Not just because of that. The value of the currency dropped the moment the referendum result was confirmed.

    We won't know how Brexit will affect the economy long term for at least a decade.
    Now that is true - but the only way Brexit would be beneficial for the economy long term is if the UK were to negotiate equivalent deals with other countries in the world, that it couldn't have done while it was part of the EU.

    If it's leaving the European Union for the sake of creating other unions with other countries, that might be fine, in the long term. But then those unions will also need to involve freedom of movement of goods, services, labour and capital (to some degree).

    If it left the EU to pursue an isolationist policy of total self-sufficiency, that would definitely be bad for the economy.
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    Allowing in vast numbers of migrants will ultimately destroy the unique ethnic and cultural identity of an indigenous people. That is what we want to protect against. Japan does it, they are unashamedly nationalistic, and whilst they do allow a small amount of immigration, it is still made it very clear that Japan is for the Japanese and that guests must conform to their culture and customs. And nobody bats an eyelid at this, Japan is not called "racist" or "xenophobic". Why are the Europeans, especially the English, denied the same right?
    Emm, how immigrants can ruin identity of locals? Usually locals do not communicate with immigrants and immigrants stay in their ethnic immigrant group.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    For some, yes, but many do not make a positive contribution.

    What is that menat to show me?

    I can only see that EEA immigrants make a consistently greater contribution. Have anything that is more up to date?
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    So your options are (a) sod anyone not geographically born in England, or (b) sod geography. What a ridiculous dichotomy
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    So your options are (a) sod anyone not geographically born in England, or (b) sod geography. What a ridiculous dichotomy
    huh? No my position is that immigration harms out cultural identity and way of life especially in places like London. It is also unjustifiable when you have such a huge number of people unemployed.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    I can tell you have never experienced or lived in situations where you have to compete with migrants for jobs or live where they live.
    Irony is that stats consistently suggest that the people who are in these situations are less likely to be anti-immigration. It's long been observed that the most anti-immigration areas are those with few immigrants relative to the rest of the country. Similarly, anti-immigration sentiment rises with age, despite the fact that younger voters have the most to worry about competition with foreign labour, and those at or approaching retirement have the least.

    I suppose you think 100% of a workforce in local factories being foreign is acceptable meaning higher local unemployment (which the numbers become skewed due to the population rising but employment staying the same)
    Lump of labour fallacy. There isn't a fixed number of jobs.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    huh? No my position is that immigration harms out cultural identity and way of life especially in places like London. It is also unjustifiable when you have such a huge number of people unemployed.
    Question is very much black and white.

    Some immigration is good, it brings in wealth, variance of opinion and new approaches which are fundamental to getting ahead globally and to making each individual person richer (more money, more wealth creation etc).

    Immigration to the point of destruction of the host culture is not a good precept, the hosts have as much a right to remain culturally significant as the incoming groups - that is their traditions and long standing practices should be allowed to remain (on the presumption they allow such rights to other cultural groups as in a tradition of attacking jews on a certain day should not withstand cultural integration). However allowing the two cultures to meet and share ideas is a great way of advancing society. If they like ideas and find common ground, both groups can be happy to move forwards into a new culture concerning such shared grounds with their old traditions and differences allowed and celebrated.

    I actually completely agree with the last point. The government has a responsibility to British citizens first and foremost be they english, indian, iranian, brazilian or any other nationality and should protect their interests before the interests of others
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Do you think that England should be for the English or be opened up to the world and everyone/anyone who wants to be allowed to live here?
    For everyone. Living with different cultures is a chance to promote the progress in a living society. Furthermore I would not face England in front of closed doors when I am intending to live there as a foreigner in the future.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Irony is that stats consistently suggest that the people who are in these situations are less likely to be anti-immigration. It's long been observed that the most anti-immigration areas are those with few immigrants relative to the rest of the country. Similarly, anti-immigration sentiment rises with age, despite the fact that younger voters have the most to worry about competition with foreign labour, and those at or approaching retirement have the least.

    Lump of labour fallacy. There isn't a fixed number of jobs.
    Stats can be manipulated as where I grew up that was always a a employment black spot is now a area with huge migrant employment, so theres even more local unemployed.

    Statistics though show unemployment has fallen though which makes no sense.

    I have lived in areas which most jobs are factory based so these are the ones that now are laid off and migrants took their place, or tourist places and the same thing happened.

    The migrants didn't steal their jobs as much as employers just don't care about British workers.

    This is why instead of getting manipulated stats you need to go and experience life in the areas where there is a lot of migrants, then you would see how things have changed, housing estates have gone downhill, most jobs are given to migrants (and not saying they don't deserve it but the British workers can be just as good)

    Just as in these areas I hear the opposite, its the older ones that don't mind migration as the migrants are getting jobs that don't impact on them and they are close to retirement age, the younger ones are competing with people for minimum wage jobs.

    The younger ones are the ones in cheaper accomodation which is where the migrants live too so get the fallout, the older ones are in mortgaged homes.

    Though it can also be argued that it gains with age because people have seen long term impact on communities because of migration, whereas the younger ones are not at the point where they notice or pass it off as one offs.

    No idea why you mention there isn't a fixed amount of jobs? Where is that denied?

    I mostly lived in towns such as in areas of the UK where mining was a large part of the economy, where factories were also a major part of local economy, most jobs dried up and the ones left are done by migrants now.

    I don't mind migrants, I don't mind them working either and having them in many fields of work, but it shouldn't be they are the majority workforces if not almost outright 100% workforce in jobs when British people have the skills, experience, and wanting to work those jobs, people claim either the British people don't want the jobs or are not good enough but that is bias and manipulated situations.
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    (Original post by Kallisto)
    For everyone. Living with different cultures is a chance to promote the progress in a living society. Furthermore I would not face England in front of closed doors when I am intending to live there as a foreigner in the future.

    The vast majority of English people don't multiculturalism and never have done. We are quite content with own culture, in our ancestral homeland, primarily populated by our own people.

    I suggest you try Brazil instead, they are more or less the most mixed nation on Earth. It's an impoverished and violent hellhole of country (so much for "progress"), but it offers exactly what you want.
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    The vast majority of English people don't multiculturalism and never have done. We are quite content with own culture, in our ancestral homeland, primarily populated by our own people.

    I suggest you try Brazil instead, they are more or less the most mixed nation on Earth. It's an impoverished and violent hellhole of country (so much for "progress", but it offers exactly what you want.
    England is completely different than Brazil. Brazil is a quite corrupt country, counts to one of the poorest country in South America. That is not a comparison. England has better economical conditions, so it has better means in terms of integrating people with different ethnicities and nationalitiesies. That is a chance indeed.
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    (Original post by Kallisto)
    England is completely different than Brazil. Brazil is a quite corrupt country, counts to one of the poorest country in South America. That is not a comparison. England has better economical conditions, so it has better means in terms of integrating people with different ethnicities and nationalitiesies. That is a chance indeed.
    It wasn't a comparison. You said you want to live in a highly multicultural society, well Brazil fits the bill better than England. Sorry but your multicultural dream is not going to be played out in England. The pushback is brewing, not only in the UK but in many European countries.
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    It wasn't a comparison. You said you want to live in a highly multicultural society, well Brazil fits the bill better than England. Sorry but your multicultural dream is not going to be played out in England. The pushback is brewing, not only in the UK but in many European countries.
    I know that the pushback is enormous, even in my native country (Germany). It is not my dream, it is my hope (although I am pessimistic). And in my view the only chance people have. Look: the number of refugees is getting increased. It is just a matter of time till we the Europeans have to think about this issue carefully and to find solutions, as I have my doubts that the living conditions in the native countries of the refugees is changing for better for the next decades. What would we do? let the refugees drown? let them shot at the frontiers?
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    The core of the immigration argument is that refugees are generally not as evolved as white people, by which I mean they are generally less intelligent, shorter, non-White - these are just genetic differences. On top of this you have the religious and cultural differences. The combination of these differences makes your typical patriotic DailyMail reader writhe over the prospect of one of these immigrants hooking up with his daughter and having kids, thus destroying generations of selective breeding by his ancestors to produce thoroughbred English offspring - you get this a lot in Yorkshire.
 
 
 
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