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    OK before anyone responds by calling me a racist or that leaving will cause mass economic problems *yawn*....
    WHY do you actually want to remain, what is so great about the EU, haven't actually seen anyone give actual evidence it is better for UK. Just 'do gooders' calling me an idiot...
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    (Original post by AOG1)
    OK before anyone responds by calling me a racist or that leaving will cause mass economic problems *yawn*....
    WHY do you actually want to remain, what is so great about the EU, haven't actually seen anyone give actual evidence it is better for UK. Just 'do gooders' calling me an idiot...
    UK citizens are guaranteed more rights being in the EU than being out. For example, the rights to work, study and live in any EU country.
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    But once we leave why can't we just pass the EU ideas we liked into our own laws
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    UK citizens are guaranteed more rights being in the EU than being out. For example, the rights to work, study and live in any EU country.
    OK I get that having the option is nice to have, and it is easy... But for me that is a huge concern. If any UK citizen can live in Europe I would first of argue is discriminatory against non-EU persons, as any old bloke from UK could move to Spain, but a professional from Asia or Africa has less rights, fair?
    Secondly the agreement is reciprocal, a simple points based immigration system will significantly reduce crime and terror as we can deny access for bad people from EU countries, common sense if you ask me?
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    Being in the European Union provides several advantages to both businesses and individuals in the UK.

    First of all is the freedom of movement of goods, services and capital which basically means that if a service or product is bought by a UK company from another EU country or vice versa, they will not have to pay import duty (a tax) on these things. This makes it cheaper for UK businesses who buy raw materials from abroad, therefore keeping their costs down. It also makes it easier for businesses to sell to other EU countries (eg. if you are in Belgium and have to choose between a supplier inside the EU and one outside that sell their service for the same price, you would not have to pay import duty for the EU supplier so that would be cheaper). The fact that the other EU countries are our largest export and import partners means that the UK could be hurt by Brexit, whilst making prices of goods in the UK higher for consumers.

    Secondly, there is the freedom of movement across the EU. This means that if you live and one EU country and want to live in another, you don't need any permission or documentation to do this. If the economy were to crash in the UK and we were still in the EU, you could easily just go to another EU country and get a job there (the same applies if you want to go to university in another EU country). This also guarantees visa-free travel as well as some healthcare cover when holidaying in the EU.

    Thirdly, there are the laws made by the EU. These laws include vast amounts of human rights laws and regulations as well as a lot of consumer protections. If you think that the Tories will just pass these into UK law, then think again. Other laws include regulations which protect the environment and reduce pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. Police forces in different countries can also cooperate in order to make it easier to catch criminals who operate in multiple EU countries.

    Some of the many other things that the EU has done include recover dwindling North Sea fish stocks, provide struggling farmers with subsidies to help them and increase scientific advancement by giving subsidies to universities and companies and facilitating cross-border cooperation and help poorer regions within EU countries with extra funding.


    Whilst I acknowledge that there are many problems with the EU including high costs, a bureaucratic system as well as a tendency for a large amount of people from poorer eastern European countries to move to richer western European countries, I personally believe the the UK would be better off staying than leaving even if the EU is in desperate need of reform.

    I hoped this has helped you understand
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    Speaking as a student, the fact that 16% of UK universities funding comes in the form of grants from the EU seems one pretty good reason to want to remain a part of it. In addition, being able to work and study anywhere in Europe is also a pretty attractive advantage.
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    (Original post by AOG1)
    OK before anyone responds by calling me a racist or that leaving will cause mass economic problems *yawn*....
    WHY do you actually want to remain, what is so great about the EU, haven't actually seen anyone give actual evidence it is better for UK. Just 'do gooders' calling me an idiot...
    Evidence is there. You can't be arsed to find it, but you'd believe the fake sh*t spawned by the Brextemists. Like the one about the NHS getting £350mil per week. I'd still like to know the answer to that one.

    1) Funding for poorer areas: a lot of Brexit places (Cornwall, Wales, Yorkshire etc) receive huge EU funding yet stupidly voted to Brexit. Good luck on getting the London-centric Tories to take over funding post-Brexit. If they didn't fund you guys before the EU stepped in, why d'you think they would when we Brexit?

    2) The immigrants. Leaving the EU will not stop immigration from Syria and Ethiopia, Afghanistan etc.....becoz they're NOT in the EU. Also when we leave all the agreements with EU ends -- especially Le Torquet with France. That means the immigrants currently holed up in refuges in France, Germany, Spain, Italy will be allowed to travel to UK. We'll be getting more immigration, not less. Also if we deport unskilled foreigners will the English get off their butts to do the menial jobs currently done by foreigners - I think not. So these jobs will need to moved abroad as well.

    3) Free movement: the free movement of peoples allows skilled staff to come to UK to do specialist jobs. Brexit will send these folks back to Germany etc. who wants them back anyway. Whereas we will be left with skilled jobs without a skilled workforce to do them. Firms will find it easier to move these jobs abroad as well, depriving UK of much needed taxes. London will be worst hit, but it is by no means the only place in UK to be in trouble when we brexit. Ditto scientific research - we will lose funding as well as people without the EU.

    3) Travel: currently UK citizens travelling to EU are treated as citizens of the countries they travel to. Say if I go to France I can use their hospitals (w/o taking out holiday insurance), schools, unis as one of them. If I break the law I'm protected by EU law and will be treated the same as them.

    4) Residency: moving to another country permanently. I can do this anywhere in EU without losing my UK passport. Brilliant idea! Post-brexit I will have no rights of residence or same legal rights as locals unless I apply for citizenship. Then I'll lose my UK passport. If I then want to move somewhere else, I must start the whole process again.

    5) Education: UK students can study in any university in Europe, with their A levels treated the same as qualifications in EU countries. Some uni courses are even free (great if your parents are as skint like mine).

    6) Politics: we are stronger in EU than outside. Unless you want to prove me wrong by picking a fight with Russia. We can't even stop one Russian boat illegally crossing our waters, can we honestly tell the whole country to f*ck off? Don't tell me the US will look after us - the US will look after no. 1 (guess who that is), and leave us high and dry. The fact is, the UK is no longer the powerful empire of 1870, and US will be more interested in a relationship with countries that are powerful, more affluent, and influential than us - like China, Russia, India, and..................the EU.

    7) Laws: when we leave we won't be able to influence how the EU make its laws and negotiate stuff in our favour, like that Le Torquet treaty.
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    Speaking as a student, the fact that 16% of UK universities funding comes in the form of grants from the EU seems one pretty good reason to want to remain a part of it. In addition, being able to work and study anywhere in Europe is also a pretty attractive advantage.
    Yes I like this one.
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    (Original post by tomywomy)
    But once we leave why can't we just pass the EU ideas we liked into our own laws
    Like your idea but.....

    we can't because our government is incapable of any coherant planning/decisions. Something so simple as age testing the so-called asylum seekers...we're haven't even started doing it yet.

    Nothing to do with EU, who don't seem to have a problem with deporting 50, 000 failed asylum seekers back to Middle East /Africa. That's the figure for just one EU country -- Germany.

    Also, just look at how we run the NHS/ schools and compare this with Europe.
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    (Original post by 3038leics)
    Being in the European Union provides several advantages to both businesses and individuals in the UK.

    First of all is the freedom of movement of goods, services and capital which basically means that if a service or product is bought by a UK company from another EU country or vice versa, they will not have to pay import duty (a tax) on these things. This makes it cheaper for UK businesses who buy raw materials from abroad, therefore keeping their costs down. It also makes it easier for businesses to sell to other EU countries (eg. if you are in Belgium and have to choose between a supplier inside the EU and one outside that sell their service for the same price, you would not have to pay import duty for the EU supplier so that would be cheaper). The fact that the other EU countries are our largest export and import partners means that the UK could be hurt by Brexit, whilst making prices of goods in the UK higher for consumers.

    Secondly, there is the freedom of movement across the EU. This means that if you live and one EU country and want to live in another, you don't need any permission or documentation to do this. If the economy were to crash in the UK and we were still in the EU, you could easily just go to another EU country and get a job there (the same applies if you want to go to university in another EU country). This also guarantees visa-free travel as well as some healthcare cover when holidaying in the EU.

    Thirdly, there are the laws made by the EU. These laws include vast amounts of human rights laws and regulations as well as a lot of consumer protections. If you think that the Tories will just pass these into UK law, then think again. Other laws include regulations which protect the environment and reduce pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. Police forces in different countries can also cooperate in order to make it easier to catch criminals who operate in multiple EU countries.

    Some of the many other things that the EU has done include recover dwindling North Sea fish stocks, provide struggling farmers with subsidies to help them and increase scientific advancement by giving subsidies to universities and companies and facilitating cross-border cooperation and help poorer regions within EU countries with extra funding.


    Whilst I acknowledge that there are many problems with the EU including high costs, a bureaucratic system as well as a tendency for a large amount of people from poorer eastern European countries to move to richer western European countries, I personally believe the the UK would be better off staying than leaving even if the EU is in desperate need of reform.

    I hoped this has helped you understand
    1) Firstly raw material markets are usually very competitive (so minimum cost) and not bought from EU anyway which generally means cheaper, but depends on countries relationship with EU and also the labour costs which are very low for raw materials. In terms of UK / EU trade, the German motor car producers are very reliant on UK purchases for example, so many business leaders will pressure governments of EU countries for low tariff UK trade deal post brexit. Finally on trade we should be able to govern our own trade agreements to maximise benefit for UK consumers and business not for Europe as a whole.
    2) I responded to someone else on this thread, but basically free movement is both dangerous and discriminatory to skilled non-EU citizens. What exactly are you saying about visa's? It is hardly a ball-ache to get visa for work or holiday
    3) Police coordinate all around the world. EU emissions rules are obvs good for environment but actually restrict UK business, which has lead to outsourcing. What exactly do you suggest happen? We go back to medieval laws? Exaggeration response....
    EU cannot reform, they are on a mission to ever closer union and I am glad we will not be part of it
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    Speaking as a student, the fact that 16% of UK universities funding comes in the form of grants from the EU seems one pretty good reason to want to remain a part of it. In addition, being able to work and study anywhere in Europe is also a pretty attractive advantage.
    How about the £8.5 billion net membership payments can provide subsidy?
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    (Original post by ThePricklyOne)
    Evidence is there. You can't be arsed to find it, but you'd believe the fake sh*t spawned by the Brextemists. Like the one about the NHS getting £350mil per week. I'd still like to know the answer to that one.

    1) Funding for poorer areas: a lot of Brexit places (Cornwall, Wales, Yorkshire etc) receive huge EU funding yet stupidly voted to Brexit. Good luck on getting the London-centric Tories to take over funding post-Brexit. If they didn't fund you guys before the EU stepped in, why d'you think they would when we Brexit?

    2) The immigrants. Leaving the EU will not stop immigration from Syria and Ethiopia, Afghanistan etc.....becoz they're NOT in the EU. Also when we leave all the agreements with EU ends -- especially Le Torquet with France. That means the immigrants currently holed up in refuges in France, Germany, Spain, Italy will be allowed to travel to UK. We'll be getting more immigration, not less. Also if we deport unskilled foreigners will the English get off their butts to do the menial jobs currently done by foreigners - I think not. So these jobs will need to moved abroad as well.

    3) Free movement: the free movement of peoples allows skilled staff to come to UK to do specialist jobs. Brexit will send these folks back to Germany etc. who wants them back anyway. Whereas we will be left with skilled jobs without a skilled workforce to do them. Firms will find it easier to move these jobs abroad as well, depriving UK of much needed taxes. London will be worst hit, but it is by no means the only place in UK to be in trouble when we brexit. Ditto scientific research - we will lose funding as well as people without the EU.

    3) Travel: currently UK citizens travelling to EU are treated as citizens of the countries they travel to. Say if I go to France I can use their hospitals (w/o taking out holiday insurance), schools, unis as one of them. If I break the law I'm protected by EU law and will be treated the same as them.

    4) Residency: moving to another country permanently. I can do this anywhere in EU without losing my UK passport. Brilliant idea! Post-brexit I will have no rights of residence or same legal rights as locals unless I apply for citizenship. Then I'll lose my UK passport. If I then want to move somewhere else, I must start the whole process again.

    5) Education: UK students can study in any university in Europe, with their A levels treated the same as qualifications in EU countries. Some uni courses are even free (great if your parents are as skint like mine).

    6) Politics: we are stronger in EU than outside. Unless you want to prove me wrong by picking a fight with Russia. We can't even stop one Russian boat illegally crossing our waters, can we honestly tell the whole country to f*ck off? Don't tell me the US will look after us - the US will look after no. 1 (guess who that is), and leave us high and dry. The fact is, the UK is no longer the powerful empire of 1870, and US will be more interested in a relationship with countries that are powerful, more affluent, and influential than us - like China, Russia, India, and..................the EU.

    7) Laws: when we leave we won't be able to influence how the EU make its laws and negotiate stuff in our favour, like that Le Torquet treaty.
    Firstly how naive do you have to be?!!!! The NHS statement was £350 million COULD be spent on EU, no promise was ever made ffs. What about all the bs statistics from remain like the recession...
    1) These areas were sick of losing their culture. Matter of opinion you cannot deny unless you live in these areas... what funding do they receive? Vague claim
    2) Did you not hear about Merkel's policies? So we have to accept these migrants do we? Urmm how about no?
    3) So we pay more into EU than get back in terms of monetary payments, and yet EU citizens can use our services, effectively pay twice.
    4) Same process as everyone else in world stop complaining
    5) I would consider studying abroad a luxury tbh, and should we have luxuries when people outside the EU don't?
    6) A trump presidency has UK at front of queue, why are we fighting Russia? Russia is fed up of EU and us leaving is a message for them and will ease conflict. Stronger in sense more is better, but when EU is rotting UK from inside, I would say big picture EU is making us weaker.
    7) Whole point of leaving is so they can't influence us and we can't influence them in terms of law...
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    (Original post by AOG1)
    How about the £8.5 billion net membership payments can provide subsidy?
    Hmm you mean like the £350m a week that was going to go towards the NHS? Forgive me if I'm skeptical about the likelihood of that actually happening. I think it's far more likely they'll just raise tuition fees... again.
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    (Original post by AOG1)
    Firstly how naive do you have to be?!!!! The NHS statement was £350 million COULD be spent on EU....
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    Hmm you mean like the £350m a week that was going to go towards the NHS? Forgive me if I'm skeptical about the likelihood of that actually happening. I think it's far more likely they'll just raise tuition fees... again.
    The £350 million was a message saying we could spend that amount once we stop paying into EU at a net loss.
    Tuition fees are not solely reliant on EU subsidies. The Government will probs increase because they are in a position where peoples demand for university is so high, why not take more money from students.... its like a graduate pre-tax, they will earn more than non grad so tax before. Agree it is too high and should be capped at £5,000 a year. Not realistic to have free tuition....
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    The EU is the best way to bypass the democratic will of the people,and thats why a lot of you like it.

    Simple as that.
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    Your a racist.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
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    I wasn't quoting, I was repeating the message they meant. How do you not read that as an option?
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    (Original post by AOG1)
    Firstly how naive do you have to be?!!!! The NHS statement was £350 million COULD be spent on EU, no promise was ever made ffs. What about all the bs statistics from remain like the recession...
    Not naivety but lied to, because those who voted were told the money's coming to the NHS. So where is it?

    (Original post by AOG1)
    1) These areas were sick of losing their culture. Matter of opinion you cannot deny unless you live in these areas... what funding do they receive? Vague claim
    It's not a vague claim when these areas have asked the govt to step in and replace the EU funding.

    (Original post by AOG1)
    2) Did you not hear about Merkel's policies? So we have to accept these migrants do we? Urmm how about no?
    You will accept them because UK doesn't have the brains to keep them out. As I 've already pointed out - nothing to do with the EU.

    (Original post by AOG1)
    3) So we pay more into EU than get back in terms of monetary payments, and yet EU citizens can use our services, effectively pay twice.
    You're not good at Maths are you? We paid once, along with all the countries who are part of the EU. Why should France pay twice to process the UK's illegal immigrants? Hence that Le Torquet Treaty.. where we pay them to do what we should be doing...processing OUR OWN illegals.



    (Original post by AOG1)
    4) Same process as everyone else in world stop complaining
    You asked for reasons - I gave it. So sorry your tiny brain can't process it and you resort to telling people to shut up.

    (Original post by AOG1)
    5) I would consider studying abroad a luxury tbh, and should we have luxuries when people outside the EU don't?
    You don't care about folks outside the EU do don't use them as an excuse. After all, you're the who don't want these folks in the UK.

    Study abroad should available to those able to go. Otherwise its like saying I haven't got an education, so neither should you, the rest of the UK. It's a race to the bottom to be the dumbest in the world. All the while the job market is changing to require more and more skill.

    (Original post by AOG1)
    6) A trump presidency has UK at front of queue, why are we fighting Russia? Russia is fed up of EU and us leaving is a message for them and will ease conflict. Stronger in sense more is better, but when EU is rotting UK from inside, I would say big picture EU is making us weaker.
    Trump will care about US interests & we will be the back of the queue. Big powers only negotiate with other big powers. UK is no longer a big power.

    Russia wants EU because it benefited hugely from having Eastern Europe under its influence back in the Cold War. Which is why its trying to take back chunks of the Ukraine and threatening Norway.


    (Original post by AOG1)
    7) Whole point of leaving is so they can't influence us and we can't influence them in terms of law...
    I would agree with you if we are living in 100 BC before the rise of the big power nations such as the Roman Empire. But we now live in a globalized world and everything we do is affected by stuff happening in other parts of the world. Oil prices in the M.East, and global price of gold affect everything in UK.

    Big countries will always wield big influence. Treaties are made globally and by big powers. Small powers don't get a look in. Theresa May and Nigel Farage knows this, otherwise, why else would they try so hard to get in the hot tub with Trump?
 
 
 
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