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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    Speaking as a student, the fact that 16% of UK universities funding comes in the form of grants from the EU seems one pretty good reason to want to remain a part of it. In addition, being able to work and study anywhere in Europe is also a pretty attractive advantage.
    Clearly young people don't care or they would have voted
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    (Original post by ThePricklyOne)
    I would qualify for a skill based visa. I am eligible to emigrate to Australia, for example.

    But in the post-Brexit EU, that would involve a huge amount of red tape (repeat for each country of the EU I want to work in).

    I have a mate who lives in the UK, pays UK taxes but works in both UK and Europe. Post Brexit, she will be able to only work in the UK or one country in Europe. If she wants to carry on as she is now, she'll need a visa for each EU country she works in. Her employers in each country will need to apply for a permit for her to work for them. That's not including the paperwork that needs doing so she either pays tax in EU or pay in the UK. That's a lot of red tape.

    After Brexit, my mate will be better off moving to EU to live permanently than to stay in the UK. So UK will lose her taxes.
    I'm going to start by clarifying I didn't vote leave. I didn't vote stay either. I don't understand the subject enough to say which is the right choice.

    But I do understand the reasons leave voters thought they were voting to leave as misguided as many are.

    The problem is the reasons to stay argued by remain believers have no impact on the people that wanted to leave, they're not real world problems for those people.

    I'm going to study computer science and potentially I can work anywhere in the world I want. Telling my racist uncle who works in construction and has seen his real earnings collapse in the last 25 years that if we leave I'll find it harder to work in Europe doesn't really get any sympathy from him.
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    And someone with no qualifications can move from one part of the country to the other. It's not good for the economy of, say, Cornwall if it's flooded with unskilled labour from the rest of England. It's not fair on the locals either. Why don't they get a say in who comes into Cornwall? Why isn't their a referendum on Cornish Independence?

    Why shouldn't it be different within a country? The distinction you're making is arbitrary.

    From what I am aware of recent terrorist attacks in Europe, most of them have been committed by citizens and not asylum seekers/refugees. It's the Schengen Area, amongst other things of course, that has allowed people to enter Europe. We're not a part of this.
    Inter country migration is different to immigration. I like to think countries within EU are still nation states, not just one big country OK. I know EU rules give you the right, but that doesn't mean you are Dutch citizen if you don't live there.
    I don't know what you stand for, this is you telling me why the EU is so great, but all you have done is shown that you don't believe in immigration controls, so anyone can come in
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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    They may well do, and thats why i included the word democratic.

    Which, for some reason you chose to ignore.
    Misusing words does not make something democratic.

    The 52% doesn't represent the voting population, of which 63% did not vote for Brexit (this figure includes the 48% who did vote to remain).

    On top of that the 52% were lied to, in order to secure their vote.

    So the 'People's Will' is a lie, which leads to my point that only totalitarian regimes uses this phrase, when they actually mean 'me and my rich friends'.
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    Clearly young people don't care or they would have voted
    I would have voted if the law permitted me to, but alas the powers that be deemed me too young to have a say in my own country's future.
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    I would have voted if the law permitted me to, but alas the powers that be deemed me too young to have a say in my own country's future.
    No omens the fact that less than 50% of people under 24 and 18+ vote in any elections
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    (Original post by ThePricklyOne)
    Misusing words does not make something democratic.

    The 52% doesn't represent the voting population, of which 63% did not vote for Brexit (this figure includes the 48% who did vote to remain).

    On top of that the 52% were lied to, in order to secure their vote.

    So the 'People's Will' is a lie, which leads to my point that only totalitarian regimes uses this phrase, when they actually mean 'me and my rich friends'.
    If you choose not to vote you cannot complain of the outcome
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    No omens the fact that less than 50% of people under 24 and 18+ vote in any elections
    Perhaps they naively assumed the result was a foregone conclusion, or maybe they were put off by all the BS, scaremongering and deception from both sides. Having said that, as a mere child I'm probably considered too young to speculate :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    Perhaps they naively assumed the result was a foregone conclusion, or maybe they were put off by all the BS, scaremongering and deception from both sides. Having said that, as a mere child I'm probably considered too young to speculate :rolleyes:
    I agree the age laws in this country are messed up currently.
    16 join the army 18 to play COD
    16 for sex 18 for porn etc

    Unfortunately voting is for adults which is age 18.

    Also I don't care most young people didn't vote but if they chose not to vot they chose to give up the right to complain
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    (Original post by BigYoSpeck)
    I'm going to start by clarifying I didn't vote leave. I didn't vote stay either. I don't understand the subject enough to say which is the right choice.

    But I do understand the reasons leave voters thought they were voting to leave as misguided as many are.

    The problem is the reasons to stay argued by remain believers have no impact on the people that wanted to leave, they're not real world problems for those people.

    I'm going to study computer science and potentially I can work anywhere in the world I want. Telling my racist uncle who works in construction and has seen his real earnings collapse in the last 25 years that if we leave I'll find it harder to work in Europe doesn't really get any sympathy from him.
    Agree with you about the Leave voters,i.e. its not a real world problems for them. But it will be. Leaving EU will not give them their old jobs back, nor turn the clock back to the good times. Brexit will remove jobs from the UK, because UK workers either won't do the jobs (because they're menial) or can't (because it requires a skilled worker).

    Brexiteers will find themselves with no job in the UK, and no taxpayers to fund their benefits and NHS/Education etc.because everyone who can will be in the EU.

    Good idea on doing IT. I'm doing IT/Maths. I've got a job and I haven't even graduated. It's a good thing to be as skilled as possible, so we can grab the jobs whether skilled or unskilled, in UK or in EU.
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    If you choose not to vote you cannot complain of the outcome
    But were they told of the outcome? No.
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    I would have voted if the law permitted me to, but alas the powers that be deemed me too young to have a say in my own country's future.
    They've deemed you too young to decide your own future.

    That's very unfair in my book.
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    I agree the age laws in this country are messed up currently.
    16 join the army 18 to play COD
    16 for sex 18 for porn etc

    Unfortunately voting is for adults which is age 18.

    Also I don't care most young people didn't vote but if they chose not to vot they chose to give up the right to complain
    Exactly... old enough to be trained to fight in wars to defend my country, but not old enough to have a say in how it's run. It's absurd.

    I fully intend to make use of my vote when I'm old enough to have one, but I must say that I don't think the current system does anything to improve voter turnout either. From what I understand, only the votes of voters living in swing seats (about 1/3 of the electorate) really count for anything.
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    (Original post by 3038leics)
    Some of the many other things that the EU has done include recover dwindling North Sea fish stocks,
    There are so many unbelievably contentious points made in your post I could be all day picking them up. Maybe if get the time I will do so over the next few days. We'll see.

    But this one really takes the biscuit. The Common Fisheries policy which allowed access to former British fishing grounds, historically their sole preserve has been an utter DISASTER for British fishermen. Despite the desperate attempts by the Europhiles to spin otherwise as you do here.

    I have a simple question for you. If the EU has been so great for fishing why did 92.1% of British fishermen vote to leave?

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/british-fisherm...-eu-heres-why/

    Any bright ideas?
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    (Original post by ThePricklyOne)
    Misusing words does not make something democratic.

    The 52% doesn't represent the voting population, of which 63% did not vote for Brexit (this figure includes the 48% who did vote to remain).

    On top of that the 52% were lied to, in order to secure their vote.

    So the 'People's Will' is a lie, which leads to my point that only totalitarian regimes uses this phrase, when they actually mean 'me and my rich friends'.
    Well, fortunately for the UK 52% of those who could be bothered to vote,voted to leave.

    Unfortunately for you, under the democratic rules of the referendum that was enough to win it for the leave campaign.

    On top of that the 48% who voted to remain were lied to, in order to secure their vote. (but I understand that is my opinion).

    The rabble on the streets after the result demonstrating to overturn the result and the venal politicians working to deny the will of the British people are anti-democratic.

    As is the EU.
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    Exactly... old enough to be trained to fight in wars to defend my country, but not old enough to have a say in how it's run. It's absurd.

    I fully intend to make use of my vote when I'm old enough to have one, but I must say that I don't think the current system does anything to improve voter turnout either. From what I understand, only the votes of voters living in swing seats (about 1/3 of the electorate) really count for anything.
    In my home town the libdems won in 1997 by 12 votes so every vote does matter
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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    Well, fortunately for the UK 52% of those who could be bothered to vote,voted to leave.

    Unfortunately for you, under the democratic rules of the referendum that was enough to win it for the leave campaign.

    On top of that the 48% who voted to remain were lied to, in order to secure their vote. (but I understand that is my opinion).

    The rabble on the streets after the result demonstrating to overturn the result and the venal politicians working to deny the will of the British people are anti-democratic.

    As is the EU.
    Huh, you like that phrase don't ya? Democracy - not.

    The Referendum is not binding on the will of Parliament, but it doesn't stop certain folks from trying to 'fix it' (in a Jimmy Savile kinda way - i.e. rape the nation and claim it consented to sex).
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    (Original post by niteninja1)
    In my home town the libdems won in 1997 by 12 votes so every vote does matter
    Presumably you live in a swing seat? My constituency has been Conservative safe seat since the late 70s. If I recall, they won by about 10,000 votes in the last election, which considering my constituency is only made up of around 33,000 voters, seems like a pretty unassailable margin.
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    (Original post by LilLilly)
    Presumably you live in a swing seat? My constituency has been Conservative safe seat since the late 70s. If I recall, they won by about 10,000 votes in the last election, which considering my constituency is only made up of around 33,000 voters, seems like a pretty unassailable margin.
    In 2010 the libdems won by 15000 in a 40000 strong seat
    In 2015 the conservatives won it by 11000 votes.
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    (Original post by BigYoSpeck)
    I'm going to start by clarifying I didn't vote leave. I didn't vote stay either. I don't understand the subject enough to say which is the right choice.

    But I do understand the reasons leave voters thought they were voting to leave as misguided as many are.

    The problem is the reasons to stay argued by remain believers have no impact on the people that wanted to leave, they're not real world problems for those people.

    I'm going to study computer science and potentially I can work anywhere in the world I want. Telling my racist uncle who works in construction and has seen his real earnings collapse in the last 25 years that if we leave I'll find it harder to work in Europe doesn't really get any sympathy from him.
    You've hit the nail on the head there. The height of delusion I've seen is the in Guardian readers letters talking about how people should open their minds about doing a PhD in Warsaw or a Masters in Bucharest. As if people barely making ends meet give a flying **** about that.

    However I don't think handing power to load of hardcore Thatcherites with the weakest opposition in decades is in any way the answer but that's another argument entirely.
 
 
 
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