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TSR Libertarian Party Question Time - Ask A Porcupine! Watch

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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    The Rt Hon. RayApparently MP, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Secretary of State for International Development would like to be added to the list of 'other supporters of formation'. :awesome:

    It is obvious that there are several highly contentious social and a few economic policies that would drive a wedge between 'libertarians', conservatives and liberals. Good luck.
    Wehey, thank you my good man! I have done exactly as you asked
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    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    Wehey, thank you my good man! I have done exactly as you asked
    :rofl: Aye, you have - thanks. :rofl:
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I've burned those bridges???

    We're still a centrist party on a centrist policy platform, equally prepared to work with the left and the right.

    I'm probably as annoyed as the Tories - it will cost us votes at the next election - but it's niche enough and there's no reason it shouldn't actually form if it can get the members.

    I've already spoken to people that may wish to defect. They know where they stand and the decision is theres. No hard feelings - it's just politics, and the Liberals have the membership to cope easily.

    Also, you say it like I've been rejecting centre left people. I've continued to recruit both left-libertarians and right-libertarians, it's just that the left are better at taking those members off me than the right


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    Noone's going to be surprised to hear that I hope the Libers gobble up your right-wing faction.

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    Then maybe the lab - lib love affair can continue. Inb4 the hoards of angry Socs open relationship anyone? This is an era of libertarians after all.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    Come off it, I bet you're vexed. It isn't so much a numbers problem, you will still have members even if all these people defect; your problem is surely a political one. You have spent the best part of two years pushing the TSR Liberal party into a Libertarian mould, recruiting libertarian-minded Tories at the expense of centrist and centre-left social democrats. If there is to be a proper and active Libertarian party then the Liberals will have to differentiate themselves somehow, but how? You can't move back to the centre and appeal to what we might call 'real Lib Dems' (not Orange Bookers), you've burned those bridges.

    :rofl:
    I think they could occupy the centre again just fine and, relevantly, even with their various libertarian members they have not looked particularly libertarian. That said, I would have been willing to allow dual-memberships, in recognition of the fact that there is some common ground. Party leaders who fear competition obviously don't want to allow that, which is fine with me. It just seems unfair on the members of this House, which could desperately use another relevant party. Anyone who does't see that plurality and diversity is good for the ongoing health of the House is either selfish, or woefully unfit to steer its future.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)

    No hard feelings - it's just politics

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    This.

    Just so it is clear, to my knowledge there is no personal issue between me and Petros. I just couldn't stay a Liberal and try to form this party after he changed his mind about dual memberships - it would be an obvious conflict of interests. I have a very good relationship with pretty much all of the major members of his party, libertarian or otherwise.

    He should have been more forthcoming, but politics gna politics :lol:
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    :rofl: Aye, you have - thanks. :rofl:
    Adds a sense of gravitas, don't you think :lol:
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    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    Adds a sense of gravitas, don't you think :lol:
    Certainly.

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    Note to self: next time, add more titles
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Certainly.

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    Note to self: next time, add more titles

    His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor RayApparently Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the Tory Empire on TSR in General and the MHoC in Particular
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    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor RayApparently Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the Tory Empire on TSR in General and the MHoC in Particular
    Oooh, I especially like the 'Conqueror of the Tory Empire' bit.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I've burned those bridges???

    We're still a centrist party on a centrist policy platform, equally prepared to work with the left and the right.

    I'm probably as annoyed as the Tories - it will cost us votes at the next election - but it's niche enough and there's no reason it shouldn't actually form if it can get the members.

    I've already spoken to people that may wish to defect. They know where they stand and the decision is theres. No hard feelings - it's just politics, and the Liberals have the membership to cope easily.

    Also, you say it like I've been rejecting centre left people. I've continued to recruit both left-libertarians and right-libertarians, it's just that the left are better at taking those members off me than the right


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    Yes, I think you have burned those bridges. Perhaps centre-left newbies joining the MHoC might make their home in the Liberal party once more, they don't know any better, but I don't think anyone who has watched the Tory-isation of the Liberal party over the past year would ever trust you not to move the party back to the right if you thought it was politically expedient.

    You are not a centrist party but we've had this debate far too many times. We will have to agree to disagree on that point.

    Left-libertarians =/= centre-left social democrats (the latter have effectively been forced out by your decision to accept a bunch of Tories). You may not reject left-leaning people, but your decision to admit so many Tories isolated the lefties you had and ensured few others would want to join. There's no way back to centre-ground politics after admitting ardent Farage and Trump fans.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    Yes, I think you have burned those bridges. Perhaps centre-left newbies joining the MHoC might make their home in the Liberal party once more, they don't know any better, but I don't think anyone who has watched the Tory-isation of the Liberal party over the past year would ever trust you not to move the party back to the right if you thought it was politically expedient.

    You are not a centrist party but we've had this debate far too many times. We will have to agree to disagree on that point.

    Left-libertarians =/= centre-left social democrats (the former have effectively been forced out by your decision to accept a bunch of Tories). You may not reject left-leaning people, but your decision to admit so many Tories isolated the lefties you had and ensured few others would want to join. There's no way back to centre-ground politics after admitting ardent Farage and Trump fans.
    Did any lefties other than yourself leave the Lib Dems?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Did any lefties other than yourself leave the Lib Dems?
    Aph, the others just went inactive.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    Aph, the others just went inactive.
    Aph was never a Liberal to be fair and i've never been able to pin down Joel's politics.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Aph was never a Liberal to be fair and i've never been able to pin down Joel's politics.
    Pretty sure he's turning Communist now.
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    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    This.

    Just so it is clear, to my knowledge there is no personal issue between me and Petros. I just couldn't stay a Liberal and try to form this party after he changed his mind about dual memberships - it would be an obvious conflict of interests. I have a very good relationship with pretty much all of the major members of his party, libertarian or otherwise.

    He should have been more forthcoming, but politics gna politics :lol:
    I agree. You still have top banter, it's just not in my interests as a liberal to support this
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I agree. You still have top banter, it's just not in my interests as a liberal to support this
    If elected Speaker, could you be trusted to act impartially with regard to the approval or lack thereof of the Libertarians?
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    If elected Speaker, could you be trusted to act impartially with regard to the approval or lack thereof of the Libertarians?
    Of course. I've already stated my requirements for them forming in the Q&A. Nothing changes


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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Of course. I've already stated my requirements for them forming in the Q&A. Nothing changes


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    Fair enough.

    If you reject them you'll get accused by some people of bring partisan whatever the reason though xD
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Fair enough.

    If you reject them you'll get accused by some people of bring partisan whatever the reason though xD
    Oh I know, but we'll deal with that if that's what happens


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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Fair enough.
    If you reject them you'll get accused by some people of bring partisan whatever the reason though xD
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Oh I know, but we'll deal with that if that's what happens
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    For the record, there are situations where I think it would be legitimate to decline the party. I wouldn't claim Petros was being partisan unless he obviously was.

    It just doesn't seem sensible for any of those situations to include me, J&T and a couple of other members being willing to join a party that is creating and debating legislation before it even exists. If that is an insufficient standard of participation, the consistent thing will then be to shut down UKIP and the Greens as a minimum.
 
 
 
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