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TSR Libertarian Party Question Time - Ask A Porcupine! Watch

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    (Original post by Adam_1999)
    Legalise handguns? 32000 people are shot in America every year. Do you want to fill the UK with bodies?

    Don't talk about safeguards and licensing; legalizing handguns would open a pandora's box of crime, death and further deregulation.
    But America, the worst argument I have heard. Let's actually look if the handgun ban did change anything.

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    (Original post by Adam_1999)
    Legalise handguns? 32000 people are shot in America every year. Do you want to fill the UK with bodies?

    Don't talk about safeguards and licensing; legalizing handguns would open a pandora's box of crime, death and further deregulation.
    There's no evidence to suggest that the handgun ban has lowered gun crime since ownership was made illegal in the 90s, to compare us based on USA statistics is a fallacy, considering the different cultures of the two nations.

    In fact one could argue that the handgun ban has actually increased gun crime because it's created a rebellious stigma attached to gun ownership in a similar way to the war on drugs increasing drug offences.

    Side Note: Please don't use ridiculous hyperbole in your arguments, it tires me.
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    (Original post by Adam_1999)
    Legalise handguns? 32000 people are shot in America every year. Do you want to fill the UK with bodies?

    Don't talk about safeguards and licensing; legalizing handguns would open a pandora's box of crime, death and further deregulation.
    You mean like it was before handguns were baselessly banned? If you're going to make claims at least check the evidence backs you up.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Hypothetically, were I to consume tea, it would have to be high quality Yorkshire tea, made in Harrogate.

    Has that crossed the Irish Sea yet? If not, you don't know what you're missing!
    Aye, but I prefer Irish tea.

    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    She really is dreamy.

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    Can't believe they killed her off in GoT.





    Mehhhh I can accept that.
    I actually know a really boring story about why the Irish drink what's been rated as the highest quality tea and its links to Anglo-Irish bank.
    She's amazing :love:

    Oh, shush, their breakfast tea is amazing
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    Aye, but I prefer Irish tea.



    She's amazing :love:

    Oh, shush, their breakfast tea is amazing
    Why have Irish tea when you can have Irish coffee?
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Why have Irish tea when you can have Irish coffee?
    Because revising while drunk is a bad idea? :awesome:
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Why have Irish tea when you can have Irish coffee?
    Saoirse, is that Harold Wilson in your avatar?
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    Wish you the best of luck fleky :yy: You found your true home the libertarian party, you never belonged in the tories anyway
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    (Original post by Airmed)
    Because revising while drunk is a bad idea? :awesome:
    Meh, tis fine as long as you're a wee bit tipsy for the exam too

    (Original post by Connor27)
    Saoirse, is that Harold Wilson in your avatar?
    'Tis indeed
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Meh, tis fine as long as you're a wee bit tipsy for the exam too



    'Tis indeed
    :toofunny:

    I don't think revising the drunkard Irish presidents while drunk is a good idea
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Meh, tis fine as long as you're a wee bit tipsy for the exam too



    'Tis indeed
    We have the two West Yorkshire PMs as our avatars then, interesting.

    But Asquith was better, just saying.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    We have the two West Yorkshire PMs as our avatars then, interesting.

    But Asquith was better, just saying.
    His second term wasn't great for sure, but I think his achievements for Labour are understated. To be in frontbench politics for 30 years generally takes some doing. In a period of some of the most rapid sociocultural, economic and technological ever, to lead the party, develop its platform with the times and keep it mostly united is remarkable, and should really serve as an example to pretty much the whole of Labour today.

    That said I'm a huge fan of Asquith for his time too and probably wouldn't disagree with your assertion Funny though that both ran into such difficulties with Ireland
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    His second term wasn't great for sure, but I think his achievements for Labour are understated. To be in frontbench politics for 30 years generally takes some doing. In a period of some of the most rapid sociocultural, economic and technological ever, to lead the party, develop its platform with the times and keep it mostly united is remarkable, and should really serve as an example to pretty much the whole of Labour today.

    That said I'm a huge fan of Asquith for his time too and probably wouldn't disagree with your assertion Funny though that both ran into such difficulties with Ireland
    Oh I do like Wilson, he's certainly not my least favourite Labour PM, it's just I don't particularly rate economically left wing PMs that highly, and that includes the likes of MacMillan and Heath on the Tory side.

    Asquith was fantastic, he was the last true Liberal PM (Lloyd George was a Tory in all but name because of how the coalition agreement worked) and stood up for classical liberal values despite all the challenges he faced; womens' suffrage movement, Trade Union unrest, Tory Protectionists in the House of Lords, Ireland as you said, and, indeed, the First World War.

    I think it's remarkable that he managed to handle all that and survived two elections in the process and no resignations from the cabinet until war broke out, a truly great leader.

    It is just a shame that his belief in classical liberal values cost him in the end when it came to the war and he ended up being betrayed by Lloyd-George.

    I love Asquith as a PM as you may be able to tell
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    (Original post by Adam_1999)
    Legalise handguns? 32000 people are shot in America every year. Do you want to fill the UK with bodies?

    Don't talk about safeguards and licensing; legalizing handguns would open a pandora's box of crime, death and further deregulation.
    Correlation does not equal causation.

    If it does explain why a ban on handguns caused a spike in homicides until more police were hired?
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    (Original post by fleky6910)
    But America, the worst argument I have heard. Let's actually look if the handgun ban did change anything.

    The merits of the ban on handguns are not directly relevant to the merits of granting individuals the liberty to own them now. Not least because your own evidence shows that we are at near record lows now and hence if your aim is to see homicides at a near record low, legalising them is a bit pointless.

    Also, you should probably provide evidence that most murders are the result of handguns if we are to be technical.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The merits of the ban on handguns are not directly relevant to the merits of granting individuals the liberty to own them now. Not least because your own evidence shows that we are at near record lows now and hence if your aim is to see homicides at a near record low, legalising them is a bit pointless.

    Also, you should probably provide evidence that most murders are the result of handguns if we are to be technical.
    But the argument isn't that it would reduce homicides, or gun homicides, or crime in general, it's that it will not increase it. If a ban has no effect on anything how can it be justified, it is a ban for the sake of a ban, it's a restriction of liberties for no reason other than because they can be restricted.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    But the argument isn't that it would reduce homicides, or gun homicides, or crime in general, it's that it will not increase it. If a ban has no effect on anything how can it be justified, it is a ban for the sake of a ban, it's a restriction of liberties for no reason other than because they can be restricted.

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    An extremely valid argument.. if your a libertarian. For those of us who are not, your asking us to indulge your desire to change the status-quo without offering any real basis for why that would be in either our or the nations self interest. At face value, greater handgun ownership does not look especially attractive.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    An extremely valid argument.. if your a libertarian. For those of us who are not, your asking us to indulge your desire to change the status-quo without offering any real basis for why that would be in either our or the nations self interest. At face value, greater handgun ownership does not look especially attractive.
    If a violent criminal was in your house, wouldn't you want a handgun to defend yourself?

    If the corbynistas miraculously sweep to power and impose an authoritarian communist dictatorship, wouldn't you rather have a weapon to defend your liberty?

    If people can defend themselves, they are more free, and the inherent merits of freedom needn't be explained.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    If a violent criminal was in your house, wouldn't you want a handgun to defend yourself?

    If the corbynistas miraculously sweep to power and impose an authoritarian communist dictatorship, wouldn't you rather have a weapon to defend your liberty?

    If people can defend themselves, they are more free, and the inherent merits of freedom needn't be explained.
    Appeal to emotion. Not a logically valid argument. And the second one means you are advocating gun ownership to bring down a democratically elected government.

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    (Original post by Aph)
    Appeal to emotion. Not a logically valid argument. And the second one means you are advocating gun ownership to bring down a democratically elected government.

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    I don't see how the argument was an appeal to emotion.
 
 
 
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