Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Political Ambassador
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Sorry mate. About to go AFK for a little while but I will reply as soon as I'm back.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Inexorably)
    Is he notorious for something, I know hardly anyone here except you, Jammy, Nigel, and Ray
    He's the Socialist Commissar for External Affairs, Northern Irish Republican. That should tell you enough
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    He's the Socialist Commissar for External Affairs, Northern Irish Republican. That should tell you enough
    And a big, big fan of gulag memes don't forget.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    This bill will act as further proof the Liberal party is not liberal, it is refugee party where members make up their incoherent philosophies to suit them.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    And a big, big fan of gulag memes don't forget.
    PRSOM
    • Very Important Poster
    • Welcome Squad
    Online

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Nay, I'm worried about the increased risk of incestuous children having disabilities.
    Would you be up for a gene screening program where people are only allowed to marry others and have kids with them if their genes are suitably different enough to increase genetic diversity which increases health overall?
    • Political Ambassador
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Nay.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    He's the Socialist Commissar for External Affairs, Northern Irish Republican. That should tell you enough





    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fleky6910)





    Leave Barack alone, he's been an ok president, by no means good because of limits imposed on him by the republican congress.
    • Political Ambassador
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Snufkin)
    But it is a "very slight risk"? I've never heard that before. Is there any evidence to support that statement? I just did a quick google and found this:

    A study of Czechoslovakian children whose fathers were first degree relatives [found that] fewer than half of the children who were the product of incestuous unions were completely healthy. Forty-two percent of them were born with severe birth defects or suffered early death and another 11 percent were mildly mentally impaired. This study is particularly instructive as it included a unique control group — the offspring of the same mothers but whose fathers were not the mothers’ relatives. When the same women were impregnated by a non-relative, only 7 percent of their children were born with a birth defect.
    There are studies that suggest lower numbers than that, but admittedly slight was an exaggeration. More care should have been taken with the working, that's my bad. Truthfully, I didn't spent any real time on that part of the argument because I consider it to be completely besides the point. I still think we should be advising people not to inbreed, I still think it is a truly terrible idea for people to do it. I do not think that decriminalising it will lead to an upswing in inbreeding because, as far as I can tell, that hasn't been the case in the Netherlands or France where consensual incest is entirely legal.

    This being said, assume for argument that we agree that it a behaviour we should want to stop. Do you think that large fines or prison sentences 1) act as a useful deterrent and 2) serve any useful purpose beyond that? Do you not think that by decriminalising the behaviour we create a atmosphere where over time people are more likely to seek help for what most will still see as an entirely abhorrent desire, thus leading to a reduction in pregnancies?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    He's the Socialist Commissar for External Affairs, Northern Irish Republican. That should tell you enough
    Oh I see, thanks
    • Offline

      20
      (Original post by Sternumator)
      I agree in principle that consenting adults should be free to do what ever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

      However, in practice, if more incest goes on, more disabled children will be born. Contraception is not 100% effective and there will be those who choose not to use it.

      I also don't think the consent issue is clear cut when it comes to family relationships. Children are brought up in a family that they don't choose. The control that family members have in shaping our lives creates power imbalances that don't exist in ordinary sexual relationships.

      When it comes to a father having sex with his 16 year old daughter, the line between what is consensual and what is not is so blurred that it doesn't really exist because abusive fathers can manipulate over years. The daughter may not know any different. She has been brought up to think what is happening is normal and she is too afraid of her father to reject his advances. Is that consent or not?
      One must assume that if it's legal, it will have some place in sex education from the age of ten/eleven - meaning your argument is moot.
      Offline

      17
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by Tootles)
      One must assume that if it's legal, it will have some place in sex education from the age of ten/eleven - meaning your argument is moot.
      It's not that simple, kids listen to their family who they have been surrounded by and who they have been dependent on their entire lives. A teacher with a few PowerPoint slides won't change that.
      Offline

      15
      ReputationRep:
      Mr Speaker,

      Have you asked the CT approval to submit this bill? If not, why can this bill be put up for debate without their approval and will you please just put the Sexual Offences Bill 2017 up for debate? After all, why on earth does it need CT approval?
      • Community Assistant
      • Clearing and Applications Advisor
      Offline

      21
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by ByronicHero)
      There are studies that suggest lower numbers than that, but admittedly slight was an exaggeration. More care should have been taken with the working, that's my bad. Truthfully, I didn't spent any real time on that part of the argument because I consider it to be completely besides the point. I still think we should be advising people not to inbreed, I still think it is a truly terrible idea for people to do it. I do not think that decriminalising it will lead to an upswing in inbreeding because, as far as I can tell, that hasn't been the case in the Netherlands or France where consensual incest is entirely legal.

      This being said, assume for argument that we agree that it a behaviour we should want to stop. Do you think that large fines or prison sentences 1) act as a useful deterrent and 2) serve any useful purpose beyond that? Do you not think that by decriminalising the behaviour we create a atmosphere where over time people are more likely to seek help for what most will still see as an entirely abhorrent desire, thus leading to a reduction in pregnancies?
      No, I don't think the prospect of prison is a deterrent to most people, but neither do I think decriminalising incest would create an atmosphere where people could come forward and seek help - legal or not, a disgust of incest is too deeply rooted in society.

      I would rather incest remained illegal and keep prison as an option to protect adults who may be coerced into having relations with their sibling/parent. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that a father say to his daughter "if you loved me you'd do this", and if she was financially dependent on him or suffered from dependent personality disorder then she may (unwillingly) consent and suffer long-lasting psychological damage as a result. As I understand the law, she would have no legal protection because she gave her consent.
      • Very Important Poster
      • Study Helper
      • Welcome Squad
      Offline

      20
      ReputationRep:
      Ermmmm nope! It's just a bit weird really, and also, if the child is born with any defects, poor child... I can also imagine them being ridiculed if their 'friends' found out they were born out of incest...!
      Offline

      18
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by mobbsy91)
      Ermmmm nope! It's just a bit weird really, and also, if the child is born with any defects, poor child... I can also imagine them being ridiculed if their 'friends' found out they were born out of incest...!
      Again, it's a matter of social conditioning, decriminalise it now and in 20 years it will no longer be taboo and a point of ridicule, as has happened with homosexuality. It's all a matter of discourse.
      • Political Ambassador
      Offline

      15
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by Unown Uzer)
      How do you know gayness isn't caused by manipulation and isn't just a symptom of a mental disorder?
      because i’m bisexual, mentally sound, and have been raised by christian parents
      • TSR Support Team
      • Peer Support Volunteers
      • Clearing and Applications Advisor
      Offline

      21
      ReputationRep:
      Definitely a no from me........
      • Political Ambassador
      Offline

      15
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by cherryred90s)
      So if the age was raised to 18 or even 21, would you still be opposed? Of course you would. Stop trying to make it about something else. You're uncomfortable with it because it's uncommon and far from the 'norm'
      (Original post by RayApparently)
      In fairness I would feel more comfortable if the age was raised. The point frankielogue has raised has gotten me concerned about the unique opportunity for grooming and emotional manipulation that would exist within such relationships.
      thank you ray. were the age to be raised to 18, i would support this.
     
     
     
    TSR Support Team

    We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

    Updated: January 16, 2017
  1. See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  2. Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
  3. See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  4. The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.