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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    So,any criticism of Lewis while allowed is absurd, due to his past achievements?
    Trump's specific criticism of Lewis, that he is all talk is absurd.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Trump's specific criticism of Lewis, that he is all talk is absurd.
    Not really.

    Lewis's congressional; district suffers from:

    Median household income lower than the national median.
    Double the unemployment rate as the national average.
    Ranked number 14 in the nation for its rate of violent crime.

    Worth criticism i would say, and in no way mitigated by his past involvement with the civil rights movement.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Because that is the natural reaction to absurdity.
    "Natural reaction"? I'm not sure if we're talking past each other as a result of different definitions of absurd, but I mean to say "ridiculous" or "clearly unreasonable" or "invoking incredulity" or "baffling". And in the case of the President elect, there isn't a great deal to find humour in - though admittedly for us foreign observers, it can be difficult not to view Trump's antics as some sort of dark comedy.

    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I am afraid people are angry that Trump has dared to criticise Lewis and there is no justification for any politician being above criticism.
    Perhaps that is true for some, but I think generally his comment - like most before it - was wildly wrong at worst and a bizarre choice of criticism at best, and it has been met with understandable counter-criticism. I think at the very least we can all agree that Trump needs to retire his Twitter account.
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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    Not really.

    Lewis's congressional; district suffers from:

    Median household income lower than the national median.
    Double the unemployment rate as the national average.
    Ranked number 14 in the nation for its rate of violent crime.

    Worth criticism i would say, and in no way mitigated by his past involvement with the civil rights movement.
    But not worthy of the criticism that was made.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Then why were you asking us for Lewis's achievements? I think they are relevant because Trump's comments were that Lewis was all talk and no action. When quite clearly Lewis is very much a man of action.

    By the way, Joe, you're hilarious.

    Joe Cooley: "What has Lewis ever done?"
    Others: *list massive achievements*
    Joe Cooley: "Not those achievements. What has he done other than all those things?"
    Others: *list achievements*
    Joe Cooley: "Hang on, what have his achievements got to do with anything?"
    Lol, shades of the "what have the Romans have ever done for us" sketch in Life of Brian.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Lol, shades of the "what have the Romans have ever done for us" sketch in Life of Brian.
    Trump reminds me of Sir John Hurt's portrayal of Caligula in I Claudius
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    It is a combination of both Lewis' "talk", and his actions which are problematic.

    First, it is objectively wrong, and truly dangerous to American democracy for he, as a Congressman, to describe Trump's Presidency as "illegitimate."

    Then he compounds this attack on the very basis of American democracy itself (the Election of the Executive by popular vote under due process) by his self aggrandizing "boycott" of the inaugaration ceremony.

    And we get cheerleaders on this thread, in the US, and on the BBC, everywhere, for this deplorable act. No-one turns a hair, no-one gets how corrosive this is to the American polity, and the democratic process itself worldwide, since the US is such a global democratic exemplar. Or was.

    If he truly is a role model for black America, an "icon," what kind of leadership is this he is providing?

    Martin Luther King truly was an icon. Lewis may have known this great man, may have given speeches beside him. But he is not fit to be compared to him, or frankly even to lace up his boots.

    Where King did great good, Lewis, here, does only great harm.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Trump reminds me of Sir John Hurt's portrayal of Caligula in I Claudius
    Combined with Brian Blessed as Augustus perhaps?
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    First, it is objectively wrong, and truly dangerous to American democracy for he, as a Congressman, to describe Trump's Presidency as "illegitimate."
    But it's not objectively wrong and truly dangerous to the US system to repeatedly and loudly claim that his opponent in the general election should be imprisoned and to call on his supporters to physically harm people and to pour public scorn onto a journalist for being disabled?

    It's a case of pots and kettles and being hoist by his own petard. The kind of vicious language from all sides that is going to emerge in the coming months is something entirely started by him and the clique of nouveau-fascists who write his scripts.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    But it's not objectively wrong and truly dangerous to the US system to repeatedly and loudly claim that his opponent in the general election should be imprisoned and to call on his supporters to physically harm people and to pour public scorn onto a journalist for being disabled?

    It's a case of pots and kettles and being hoist by his own petard. The kind of vicious language from all sides that is going to emerge in the coming months is something entirely started by him and the clique of nouveau-fascists who write his scripts.
    Hilary isn't going to be imprisoned. :rolleyes: I agree that he behaved in a vile way towards the disabled journalist, though. That was utterly despicable.

    But he was elected fair and square. The Democrats need to accept that. If they don't like it, impeach him, or defeat him at the next election.

    But not attending his inaugaration is both dangerous but also both self defeating and pathetic. And truly contemptuous of the millions upon millions of ordinary of Americans who voted for him. Some of whose votes they are presumably hoping to attract next time round.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Hilary isn't going to be imprisoned. :rolleyes:
    But that is a cynical betrayal of millions who voted for him in the expectation that she would be prosecuted.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But that is a cynical betrayal of millions who voted for him in the expectation that she would be prosecuted.
    Ha ha ha!

    Touche.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Ha ha ha!

    Touche.
    It is only semi-humorous. Politicians at least make a pretence at carrying through their manifesto commitments. The manifesto or platform is the politician's contract with the voter
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    Another day, another nonsense tweet by Donald Trump. I just expect him to say something stupid daily at this point :dontknow:
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It is only semi-humorous. Politicians at least make a pretence at carrying through their manifesto commitments. The manifesto or platform is the politician's contract with the voter
    Yes.

    Trump isn't like other "politicians" though is he? It is as if the whole political world has gone through the looking glass...
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Yes.

    Trump isn't like other "politicians" though is he?

    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_copybook.htm
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    I love that poem, and I love Kipling too. It is a pity he so out of fashion nowadays, because of all the right on "post colonialist" critics.

    You seem a well read chap. Do you know Orwell's essay on his work? Orwell absolutely hated the Empire, of course, having worked in its service, but it didn't stop him admiring Kipling, and recognising his genius. Great essay if
    you haven't come across it...

    He's brilliant on Dickens too. Another favourite of mine.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    I love that poem, and I love Kipling too. It is a pity he so out of fashion nowadays, because of all the right on "post colonialist" critics.

    You seem a well read chap. Do you know Orwell's essay on his work? Orwell absolutely hated the Empire, of course, having worked in its service, but it didn't stop him admiring Kipling, and recognising his genius. Great essay if
    you haven't come across it...

    He's brilliant on Dickens too. Another favourite of mine.
    I read it many years ago.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Woke up this morning to hear that the President-Elect has been bashing John Lewis.

    Deeply puzzled at this assault on our leading retail brand. Did he have a bad experience with a table lamp? Do they even sell gold-leafed table lamps? Or was it a Waitrose salad that sent him over the edge?

    No. It was this guy.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38623881

    It could be you next. :afraid:
    This guy had enough faith in the Democratic process, at one time, to believe it could deliver equal rights to millions of disenfranchised citizens. But now, when that same process doesn't give him the results he wants he trashes it. That's a great message for young blacks; if they don't like what Democracy delivers up than just ignore the results or better yet, take your ball and go home.
 
 
 
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