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Laura Spence is Back!
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Reply 20
15
It was Gordon Brown who blew the whole thing out of proportion.
Commie bastard.
Commie bastard.
Reply 21
I was told by the Magdalen JCR President that the medical students who got into the college instead of Laura Spence are some of the best medical students in the entire year. The admissions tutors clearly knew what they were doing then.
Reply 22
Lord Huntroyde
It was Gordon Brown who blew the whole thing out of proportion.
Commie bastard.
Commie bastard.
Whos a commie? Gordan Brown?!
Reply 23
And admitting how shite she was at interview - which is precisely the reason the guy who interviewed her gave... A really nice guy put through the ringer by some jumped up little...
Reply 24
GraduateMedic
And admitting how s**** she was at interview - which is precisely the reason the guy who interviewed her gave... A really nice guy put through the ringer by some jumped up little...
Huh?
Reply 25
20
My guess is that the papers were running out of education stories in the run up to the good old "exams getting easier" and "amazing genius rejected by Oxbridge snobs" and thought "I know, let's dig up this one and make some more out of it!" 
Reply 26
The fact that she didnt even end up doing medicine shows that she shouldn't have been accepted to oxford. if you want to go to the best university in the country then you've got to be committed and passionate about your subject which she obviously wasnt. and if she doesnt like media attention why pose for a picture for the BBC website!
What happened with uk learning and the edexcel exma papers?
What happened with uk learning and the edexcel exma papers?
Reply 27
LittleMinx
What happened with uk learning and the edexcel exma papers?
To cut a long story short, someone posted questions from an edexcel exam paper (P2 maths I think) before the exam was taken. People from UKL subsequently noticed while taking the exam the next day and reported it. Polly Curtis then reports on the matter in a very slipshod way making it seem like UKL is a hotbed of evil cheats which practically encourages exam cheating.
Reply 28
[QUOTE="sarah101"]
The headmaster of Laura Spence's school was in fact a fairly prominent Labour supporter. His school was well used to Oxbridge applicants and the year before he had tried to kick up a similar fuss about a girl at his school. He also must be fairly well connected/informed if he was able to orchestrate Ivy League applications at his school. The whole thing was very deliberately constructed by him in the hope of getting some media attention and hoping to insert some Old Labour class hatred. Gordon Brown hardly hijacked it, he ate what was served.
What I found infuriating about the whole thing was that the media portrayed her as some poor working class girl, which wasn't true (case in point she had a very nice house and all the typical extracurriculars such as playing the flute), and also portrayed her as being humble, which she clearly wasn't as she wilfully applied to the most competitive college in Oxford for the most competitive of subjects.
The BBC, or as they should be called LLC (Labour arse-Licking Corporation, or Loony Lefties Corporation) swallwed the whole story and picked up on a comment saying 'she would make an excellent doctor' ignorant of the fact that she had ranked lowly in interviews etc., and failing to appreciate the concept that just because 'she would make an excellent doctor' does not mean 'her failiure to get a place is because of prejudice in the system'. What really galled me though was when they [the idiots at the beeb] tried to proclaim Harvard as being a fairer place to gain admission than Oxford despite the fact that Harvard openly shows preference towards alumni affiliated applicants' and scouts to make sure it has a strong showing in extracurricular activities. He, Paul Kelley, the head of Laura Spence's school groaned on and on about how much fairer the system was in America, failing to realise that the lack of nationalised education has led to everything being pinned on the SAT, which is such a superficial way to evaluate performance it is galling. He also failed to justify the American system costing applicants' roughly $60 per institution applied to.
The British system may have its faults, but at heart it is better. Laura Spence argues it is to early to specialise at 18, and this is largely true in the present system. If however the educationalists all distanced themselves from their own selfish objectives and focused for one on students and put some of the pieces they have haphazardly removed from A Level syllabuses back in place the problems of the system would largely evaporate.
dave134
Unfortunately the heads valid points got hijacked by Brown et al for political reasons. What should have been debated, is whether the UCAS system is fair to those who have no experience of it.
QUOTE]
From what I've read, the head didn't really know what he was talking about. I believe he was invited to the Oxford University debating society and didn't have anything really worthwhile to say. He just kept saying they were all snobs and didn't know what they were doing. Unfortunately this seems to be quite a common perception of Oxbridge - people assume that everyone who goes there is really posh and rich and that they are stuck in the dark ages, when in my experience Cambridge was one of the most forward-thinking universities I visited.
QUOTE]
From what I've read, the head didn't really know what he was talking about. I believe he was invited to the Oxford University debating society and didn't have anything really worthwhile to say. He just kept saying they were all snobs and didn't know what they were doing. Unfortunately this seems to be quite a common perception of Oxbridge - people assume that everyone who goes there is really posh and rich and that they are stuck in the dark ages, when in my experience Cambridge was one of the most forward-thinking universities I visited.
The headmaster of Laura Spence's school was in fact a fairly prominent Labour supporter. His school was well used to Oxbridge applicants and the year before he had tried to kick up a similar fuss about a girl at his school. He also must be fairly well connected/informed if he was able to orchestrate Ivy League applications at his school. The whole thing was very deliberately constructed by him in the hope of getting some media attention and hoping to insert some Old Labour class hatred. Gordon Brown hardly hijacked it, he ate what was served.
What I found infuriating about the whole thing was that the media portrayed her as some poor working class girl, which wasn't true (case in point she had a very nice house and all the typical extracurriculars such as playing the flute), and also portrayed her as being humble, which she clearly wasn't as she wilfully applied to the most competitive college in Oxford for the most competitive of subjects.
The BBC, or as they should be called LLC (Labour arse-Licking Corporation, or Loony Lefties Corporation) swallwed the whole story and picked up on a comment saying 'she would make an excellent doctor' ignorant of the fact that she had ranked lowly in interviews etc., and failing to appreciate the concept that just because 'she would make an excellent doctor' does not mean 'her failiure to get a place is because of prejudice in the system'. What really galled me though was when they [the idiots at the beeb] tried to proclaim Harvard as being a fairer place to gain admission than Oxford despite the fact that Harvard openly shows preference towards alumni affiliated applicants' and scouts to make sure it has a strong showing in extracurricular activities. He, Paul Kelley, the head of Laura Spence's school groaned on and on about how much fairer the system was in America, failing to realise that the lack of nationalised education has led to everything being pinned on the SAT, which is such a superficial way to evaluate performance it is galling. He also failed to justify the American system costing applicants' roughly $60 per institution applied to.
The British system may have its faults, but at heart it is better. Laura Spence argues it is to early to specialise at 18, and this is largely true in the present system. If however the educationalists all distanced themselves from their own selfish objectives and focused for one on students and put some of the pieces they have haphazardly removed from A Level syllabuses back in place the problems of the system would largely evaporate.
Reply 29
Hey - ^good post^. 
I was wondering about applying to some American unis today, as it happens.
On looking at the websites of a few places, Brown, UPenn et cetera - I find it a little hard to determine:
a) What a law course in the US will involve
b) How much will it cost? (I'm not rich or poor - but I wouldn't be entitled to any form of means tested subsidy in the UK).
c) What would be my position on qualification, should I want to return to England to work?
I was wondering about applying to some American unis today, as it happens.
On looking at the websites of a few places, Brown, UPenn et cetera - I find it a little hard to determine:
a) What a law course in the US will involve
b) How much will it cost? (I'm not rich or poor - but I wouldn't be entitled to any form of means tested subsidy in the UK).
c) What would be my position on qualification, should I want to return to England to work?
Reply 30
I did always wonder exactly how she got into Harvard. Given that applying to Harvard sounds like a dozen times as much work as applying to 6 different institutions through UCAS. Alot of people get the impression from the media that Harvard were so disgusted by the Oxford rejection that they randomly called her up and offered a place and full scholarship.
And as mentioned, it's all very well her saying more british kids should try out for the ivy league and do liberal arts degrees, but seriously, how often do harvard give full scholarships to internationals?! I couldn't ask my parents to mortgage their house to pay for me to swan around Harvard instead of a non oxbridge UK institution. I would have enjoyed the challenge of trying to get sponsorships though!
And as mentioned, it's all very well her saying more british kids should try out for the ivy league and do liberal arts degrees, but seriously, how often do harvard give full scholarships to internationals?! I couldn't ask my parents to mortgage their house to pay for me to swan around Harvard instead of a non oxbridge UK institution. I would have enjoyed the challenge of trying to get sponsorships though!
Reply 31
How did she even get the media attention? Why her? Why not any of the hundreds of other people with straight A grades that get rejected every year? Seems very dodgy to me. Plus, Oxford is arguably not the best institution at which to study medicine anyway.
Reply 32
mobbdeeprob
Hey - ^good post^.
I was wondering about applying to some American unis today, as it happens.
On looking at the websites of a few places, Brown, UPenn et cetera - I find it a little hard to determine:
a) What a law course in the US will involve
b) How much will it cost? (I'm not rich or poor - but I wouldn't be entitled to any form of means tested subsidy in the UK).
c) What would be my position on qualification, should I want to return to England to work?
I was wondering about applying to some American unis today, as it happens.
On looking at the websites of a few places, Brown, UPenn et cetera - I find it a little hard to determine:
a) What a law course in the US will involve
b) How much will it cost? (I'm not rich or poor - but I wouldn't be entitled to any form of means tested subsidy in the UK).
c) What would be my position on qualification, should I want to return to England to work?
a) Law in America is a postgraduate qualification (J.D.). You then need to do bar exams in the states you wish to practise in, and most law firms are unwilling to allow foreigners to take their Bar exams, except from New York and California. The J.D. degree takes three years, each of which cost about $50,000. (That includes all living costs).
So if you want to do law without reservation, you have to think whether you'd really want to delay that by 3-4 years for an American college education. The American College application process is quite complex, as unlike UCAS, there is no unifying system. Each university charges a fee ($60-75) for applying, which is also a lot of outlay before you've even started.
Although you say you wouldn't qualify for financial aid here, in America you probably would unless your parents have liquid assets and additional income, beyond that needed for living, in the region of $130,000.
You will need to register for and take the collegeboard SAT I for almost all colleges, and certainly any reputable ones. This is, incase you didn't know, a three hour examination with six sections (three mathematical and three verbal), plus one experimental section which is unscored. The math section is out of 60, the verbal out of 78. There is a guessing penalty for wrong answers, except for in the free response math questions. Your score for each is then rounded down, and converted on a scaled chart. So, when I took the SAT in June I got 800/800 on Math, but know I didn't get full marks because I left one grid-in question empty, so my raw score was at the most 59, and ultimately probably 58- I'm sure I made other mistakes! The girl I knew taking it, however, got 690/800, yet her raw score would have been around 52- so the points falls are steep! For my verbal is got 763/800, which I was very happy with as I had had to guess on five questions in one section- using the infamous if you eliminate one, two, three, four technique.
For Harvard you have to additionally take three SAT II tests, which are real bitches. Not because they are hard in anyway but because the content of them is so weird. Biology in particular is very different to the material I have learnt. As I'm applying to Columbia, I have to do SAT II in Writing, Algebra IC and one other subject- for which I have chosen Chemistry.
c) Ultimately your position upon returning to the UK for work would be favourable. My Biology teacher actually guided me towards considering applying because it is increasingly being seen as the way to go. If you come back from the US, have lived in another continent and in a different culture, your life experiences will be different and your horizons broadened. It will also help you to stand out from the crowd.
An American undergraduate degree is suitable to enter on to the CPE. However, it would be cheaper to take Senior Status LLB/BA Law for two years.
For everyone's information; Harvard, Yale, Princeton and MIT are the only four colleges to offer needs-blind financial aid to all international applicants.
Reply 33
Airport Fairy
How did she even get the media attention? Why her? Why not any of the hundreds of other people with straight A grades that get rejected every year? Seems very dodgy to me. Plus, Oxford is arguably not the best institution at which to study medicine anyway.
She got the attention because her head teacher, instead of acting in a dignified and responsible way just contacted the media and some Labour cronies.
By the way, we should set up Spence watch to find out which university she is doing GEM at. I know she was considering Oxford... now, wouldn't that be funny- sample interview:
Interviewer: We see you applied to Oxford before in 1999?
Laura Spence: ummm... Yes (twiddles thumbs nervously)
Interviewer: And what was the outcome of that application?
Laura: I was unfortunately not chosen for a place, but that was good because Harvard offered me one, and every girl knows Harvard is the place to find eligible WASPs to marry!
Interviewer: So now why do you want to come back to England to study?
Laura: Harvard cut me off! They refused to fund my boozing and bed-hopping. My decision to study medicine is really a voyage of desperation to find a job where people have to listen to me!
I know she didn't do anything wrong- but it is funny pretending that she did! Does anyone know how well she did in her SAT exams (I'm hoping one of her ahem- friends- will come on and tell me), cos I want to know if I should retake my verbal section.
Reply 34
15
I thought Laura Spence was supposed to come from the mines of the Noth East?
How can she possibly afford to spend so long in education?
How can she possibly afford to spend so long in education?
Reply 35
sarah101
Huh?
The guy who interviewed her was hounded by the media - poor sod.
He sadi then that she interviewed particularly badly. Now she admits that too.
And she was hardly dedicated to medicine having jumped off to the US and read Biochem. she was only bothered about attending an Ivy League Uni, not about the course she was applying to do. All round I think the right decision was made.
Reply 36
tomcoolinguk
By the way, we should set up Spence watch to find out which university she is doing GEM at. I know she was considering Oxford... now, wouldn't that be funny- sample interview:
She got onto a GEM? I read that she had changed her mind about medicine and was starting a PhD...
Reply 37
GraduateMedic
The guy who interviewed her was hounded by the media - poor sod.
He sadi then that she interviewed particularly badly. Now she admits that too.
And she was hardly dedicated to medicine having jumped off to the US and read Biochem. she was only bothered about attending an Ivy League Uni, not about the course she was applying to do. All round I think the right decision was made.
He sadi then that she interviewed particularly badly. Now she admits that too.
And she was hardly dedicated to medicine having jumped off to the US and read Biochem. she was only bothered about attending an Ivy League Uni, not about the course she was applying to do. All round I think the right decision was made.
I think it was the right decision too, anyone with half a brain can see it was. But I think it's unfair to call her a "jumped-up little...". She's going to have this following her around for her whole life, every time she goes to a job interview or meets someone new they will already have all these pre-conceived ideas about her - and mostly negative and wrong. She has admitted almost right from the start she doesn't believe she should have got a place.
Reply 38
sarah101
I think it was the right decision too, anyone with half a brain can see it was. But I think it's unfair to call her a "jumped-up little...". She's going to have this following her around for her whole life, every time she goes to a job interview or meets someone new they will already have all these pre-conceived ideas about her - and mostly negative and wrong. She has admitted almost right from the start she doesn't believe she should have got a place.
I guess when you count the guy who interviewed her amongst your close friends and know what hell he went through, then 'jumped up' is one of the nicer words that spring to mind!
If I were her I would have stayed Stateside, or changed my name! It's an important lesson for anyone to lean. I think the actions of her school head and GB were terrible. However, it was done in her name and mud sticks.
She's going to have to carry that stigma around with her for the rest of her life. people will assume she's gotten where she has by intimidating people and not on her own merits, which is sad, as I'm sure she is a very able student.
Reply 39
GraduateMedic
She got onto a GEM? I read that she had changed her mind about medicine and was starting a PhD...
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3537724.stm
BBC News
In 2001, Ms Spence said Oxford had been right to refuse her, on the basis of her college interview.
Speaking prior to her return from Harvard, where she won a scholarship, Ms Spence said she would continue her medical studies in the UK.
Speaking prior to her return from Harvard, where she won a scholarship, Ms Spence said she would continue her medical studies in the UK.
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