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Original post by Andrella
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Okay, you dont like St Andrews or Scottish universities , Good for you.Bath isnt a Russell group and its a well respected university compared to other Russell group university. If being the 3rd oldest university in the English speaking world doesn't make it prestige at the very list I dont know what. 3 different rankins used in the UK place it at top 5 , it not a big deal if you adore London university but there re other respected and reputable institutions
Okay, you dont like St Andrews or Scottish universities , Good for you.Bath isnt a Russell group and its a well respected university compared to other Russell group university. If being the 3rd oldest university in the English speaking world doesn't make it prestige at the very list I dont know what. 3 different rankins used in the UK place it at top 5 , it not a big deal if you adore London university but there re other respected and reputable institutions
Again basing your graduate prospects on how many people get a job from the university rather than how many people get a Job in the industry you want to get into from a particular university, also not what i would do but everyone is entitled to their opinions and views.
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Original post by JustPadz
Because basing your university choice on the guardian rankings is better lol k.
And why is St Andrews not in the russell group? If its as good as you say it is, surely it should be in there?
You're still not explaining what I pointed out, I pointed out that scottish universities are known for being notoriously easy to get into as they want money from non scottish students who have to pay as I pointed out with Edinburgh, so even if its one of the hardest to get into in Scotland, that's not saying much.
Graduate prospect rankings rankings KCL 6th in the UK
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/universities/top-10-uk-universities-for-graduate-prospects/?entry=1
So now that we have that out the way.
Let's not even bring up the Oxford Cambridge rivalry thing, that is for another time.
And why is St Andrews not in the russell group? If its as good as you say it is, surely it should be in there?
You're still not explaining what I pointed out, I pointed out that scottish universities are known for being notoriously easy to get into as they want money from non scottish students who have to pay as I pointed out with Edinburgh, so even if its one of the hardest to get into in Scotland, that's not saying much.
Graduate prospect rankings rankings KCL 6th in the UK
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/universities/top-10-uk-universities-for-graduate-prospects/?entry=1
So now that we have that out the way.
Let's not even bring up the Oxford Cambridge rivalry thing, that is for another time.
Its not just one of the hardest to get into in Scotland, its one of the hardest to get into in the UK (thats a fact) if you also want to ignore that
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Original post by JustPadz
Because basing your university choice on the guardian rankings is better lol k.
And why is St Andrews not in the russell group? If its as good as you say it is, surely it should be in there?
You're still not explaining what I pointed out, I pointed out that scottish universities are known for being notoriously easy to get into as they want money from non scottish students who have to pay as I pointed out with Edinburgh, so even if its one of the hardest to get into in Scotland, that's not saying much.
Graduate prospect rankings rankings KCL 6th in the UK
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/universities/top-10-uk-universities-for-graduate-prospects/?entry=1
So now that we have that out the way.
Let's not even bring up the Oxford Cambridge rivalry thing, that is for another time.
And why is St Andrews not in the russell group? If its as good as you say it is, surely it should be in there?
You're still not explaining what I pointed out, I pointed out that scottish universities are known for being notoriously easy to get into as they want money from non scottish students who have to pay as I pointed out with Edinburgh, so even if its one of the hardest to get into in Scotland, that's not saying much.
Graduate prospect rankings rankings KCL 6th in the UK
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/universities/top-10-uk-universities-for-graduate-prospects/?entry=1
So now that we have that out the way.
Let's not even bring up the Oxford Cambridge rivalry thing, that is for another time.
Also a list based on 2013/2014 figures when were in 2017...
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Original post by JustPadz
And why is St Andrews not in the russell group? If its as good as you say it is, surely it should be in there?
And why is St Andrews not in the russell group? If its as good as you say it is, surely it should be in there?
The RG is not an indicator of "prestige" - it's a self-selected political lobby group, nothing more.
The fact St Andrews isn't in it is nothing to do with being "good" or "bad", it's probably due to their size and the fact it does extremely well without needing the RG.
In terms of being easy to get into... they are well known for rejecting some Oxbridge and similar standard applicants. They rank 5th in the UK for entry standards (as measured by UCAS tariff score of new students). That's higher than LSE and UCL.
Apologies for my slightly out of date link, here is a slightly updated version from November 2016
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/graduate-employability-top-universities-uk-ranked-employers
And ya know that wikipedia image you sent me?
Scroll down the page to the next set of rankings.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/graduate-employability-top-universities-uk-ranked-employers
And ya know that wikipedia image you sent me?
Scroll down the page to the next set of rankings.
Original post by JohnGreek
It's interesting you say that based on CUG's metrics, when the Guardian has different ones:
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Entry+Standards
https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2016/may/23/university-league-tables-2017
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Entry+Standards
https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2016/may/23/university-league-tables-2017
6th in the Guardian. 5th in CUG. Maybe different years data? Dunno.
But still, either way, not "easy".
And speaking of league tables:
Times / Sunday Times Good Uni Guide has St Andrews 3rd (overall, not just entry standards).
http://st.hitcreative.com/education/university_guide/active/UniversityGuide/index/year/2017/goto/tableSearchAnchor
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by jneill
The RG is not an indicator of "prestige" - it's a self-selected political lobby group, nothing more.
The fact St Andrews isn't in it is nothing to do with being "good" or "bad", it's probably due to their size and the fact it does extremely well without needing the RG.
In terms of being easy to get into... they are well known for rejecting some Oxbridge and similar standard applicants. They rank 5th in the UK for entry standards (as measured by UCAS tariff score of new students). That's higher than LSE and UCL.
The fact St Andrews isn't in it is nothing to do with being "good" or "bad", it's probably due to their size and the fact it does extremely well without needing the RG.
In terms of being easy to get into... they are well known for rejecting some Oxbridge and similar standard applicants. They rank 5th in the UK for entry standards (as measured by UCAS tariff score of new students). That's higher than LSE and UCL.
Thank you for educating me with regards to the Russel group, I was completely unaware.
I still remain curious, are those the entry requirements for Scottish students, or for other students? As I stated previously I remember people being told specifically at school to apply for Edinburgh as Scottish universities have a policy to accept non Scottish students as they need to pay, resulting in them offering different conditions to Scottish and non Scottish students.
Original post by JustPadz
Thank you for educating me with regards to the Russel group, I was completely unaware.
I still remain curious, are those the entry requirements for Scottish students, or for other students? As I stated previously I remember people being told specifically at school to apply for Edinburgh as Scottish universities have a policy to accept non Scottish students as they need to pay, resulting in them offering different conditions to Scottish and non Scottish students.
I still remain curious, are those the entry requirements for Scottish students, or for other students? As I stated previously I remember people being told specifically at school to apply for Edinburgh as Scottish universities have a policy to accept non Scottish students as they need to pay, resulting in them offering different conditions to Scottish and non Scottish students.
CUG and Guardian rankings are all students via UCAS, and uses HESA data.
Scottish students do Highers and other students may do IB or Alevels or any other exams, in all universities there are disparities in the entry requirements because of that. It's not specific to Scottish universities. And also they're tuition fees for international applicants are really not that high compared to other universities.
Original post by JustPadz
Just saying, back in my day when I was applying to university it was commonly known that scottish university was a joke to get into and gave away easy offers. Personally Edinburgh gave me an offer of BBB, so I shudder to think what St andrews would give, a University ranked 74th in the world if a University ranked 19th gives a BBB offer. To reiterate, I didn't even know St Andrews University was a thing till like last week.
Furthermore, everyone dreamed of coming to the big city in London, depending on their specialty people would pick one of the different CLs or head to LSE. i.e. Imperial for engineering, UCL for English, KCL for law, and LSE for economics. No one really seemed to care about Durham, I remember looking it up once and saw that it was in the middle of nowhere, checked in the world rankings, saw it was in the 60s and just thought, well I shan't be applying there.
Furthermore, everyone dreamed of coming to the big city in London, depending on their specialty people would pick one of the different CLs or head to LSE. i.e. Imperial for engineering, UCL for English, KCL for law, and LSE for economics. No one really seemed to care about Durham, I remember looking it up once and saw that it was in the middle of nowhere, checked in the world rankings, saw it was in the 60s and just thought, well I shan't be applying there.
When exactly was back in your day? The fact that you haven't heard of it doesn't mean anything to be honest.
You can say what you want about selectivity but Warwick gives offers to 5 in 6 of its applicants and King's to 2 in 3 of its applicants - both have higher offer rates than Edinburgh and St Andrews (who give offers to 1 in 2 applicants). They also have higher average entry standards than King's (~AABaa) and Edinburgh has the same entry standards as Warwick (AAAaa). Durham and St Andrews have an average UCAS score of ~A*A*Aaa - both significantly higher than King's.
Original post by Andrella
Its not just one of the hardest to get into in Scotland, its one of the hardest to get into in the UK (thats a fact) if you also want to ignore that
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If you're basing it on offer rate then that means UAL, AUB and Falmouth are all more prestigious than St Andrews
http://st.hitcreative.com/education/university_guide/active/UniversityGuide/index/year/2017
Original post by PQ
If you're basing it on offer rate then that means UAL, AUB and Falmouth are all more prestigious than St Andrews
http://st.hitcreative.com/education/university_guide/active/UniversityGuide/index/year/2017
http://st.hitcreative.com/education/university_guide/active/UniversityGuide/index/year/2017
UAL is more prestigious than Cambridge let alone St Andrews
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Original post by PQ
If you're basing it on offer rate then that means UAL, AUB and Falmouth are all more prestigious than St Andrews
http://st.hitcreative.com/education/university_guide/active/UniversityGuide/index/year/2017
http://st.hitcreative.com/education/university_guide/active/UniversityGuide/index/year/2017
UAL and Falmouth i believe are specific arts university. And I have heard UAL is very difficult to get into and Falmouth has a strong arts department.
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As an EU applicant who has lived in the Czech Republic and in Denmark for several years, I believe I can weigh in. Note that this opinion comes from my own personal bubble and does not have to be 100% accurate. However, I believe that it is a fairly representative view that most of people in Europe hold as I have spoken to a great variety of different people/students.
In terms of overall prestige - Oxbridge leads by a mile, followed by LSE and UCL. Not many people outside STEM fields actually heard of Imperial. Frankly, nobody has heard of St. Andrews and 99% of people would not know that it is a Scottish university. When it comes to Edinburgh or Warwick, the reputation is slightly more profound and you can come across people that recognize these universities. However, nothing comes close to Oxbridge, LSE and UCL. I have not had the opportunity to discuss King's.
Generally, the "wow" factor is only generated by Oxbridge, LSE and UCL.
If we want to talk about specific subjects, I can share with you my view of how people in the economics related disciplines perceive UK universities (I am studying Economics). The ranking would be LSE ------- Oxbridge, Warwick, UCL. You would be surprised how highly LSE is valued among economic students across Europe. It is perceived as the "holy grail" of any economic education.
You should note that this is only a snapshot of how people outside UK PERCEIVE these universities. I am not discussing facts or objective measures. I am simply looking at the perception of these universities. And as I said before, only Oxbridge, LSE and UCL generate the wow factor.
In terms of overall prestige - Oxbridge leads by a mile, followed by LSE and UCL. Not many people outside STEM fields actually heard of Imperial. Frankly, nobody has heard of St. Andrews and 99% of people would not know that it is a Scottish university. When it comes to Edinburgh or Warwick, the reputation is slightly more profound and you can come across people that recognize these universities. However, nothing comes close to Oxbridge, LSE and UCL. I have not had the opportunity to discuss King's.
Generally, the "wow" factor is only generated by Oxbridge, LSE and UCL.
If we want to talk about specific subjects, I can share with you my view of how people in the economics related disciplines perceive UK universities (I am studying Economics). The ranking would be LSE ------- Oxbridge, Warwick, UCL. You would be surprised how highly LSE is valued among economic students across Europe. It is perceived as the "holy grail" of any economic education.
You should note that this is only a snapshot of how people outside UK PERCEIVE these universities. I am not discussing facts or objective measures. I am simply looking at the perception of these universities. And as I said before, only Oxbridge, LSE and UCL generate the wow factor.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Mieleki
As an EU applicant who has lived in the Czech Republic and in Denmark for several years, I believe I can weigh in. Note that this opinion comes from my own personal bubble and does not have to be 100% accurate. However, I believe that it is a fairly representative view that most of people in Europe hold as I have spoken to a great variety of different people/students.
In terms of overall prestige - Oxbridge leads by a mile, followed by LSE and UCL. Not many people outside STEM fields actually heard of Imperial. Frankly, nobody has heard of St. Andrews and 99% of people would not know that it is a Scottish university. When it comes to Edinburgh or Warwick, the reputation is slightly more profound and you can come across people that recognize these universities. However, nothing comes close to Oxbridge, LSE and UCL. I have not had the opportunity to discuss King's.
Generally, the "wow" factor is only generated by Oxbridge, LSE and UCL.
If we want to talk about specific subjects, I can share with you my view of how people in the economics related disciplines perceive UK universities (I am studying Economics). The ranking would be LSE ------- Oxbridge, Warwick, UCL. You would surprised how highly LSE is valued among economic students across Europe. It is perceived as the "holy grail" of any economic education.
You should note that this is only a snapshot of how people outside UK PERCEIVE these universities. I am not discussing facts or objective measures. I am simply looking at the perception of these universities. And as I said before, only Oxbridge, LSE and UCl generate the wow factor.
In terms of overall prestige - Oxbridge leads by a mile, followed by LSE and UCL. Not many people outside STEM fields actually heard of Imperial. Frankly, nobody has heard of St. Andrews and 99% of people would not know that it is a Scottish university. When it comes to Edinburgh or Warwick, the reputation is slightly more profound and you can come across people that recognize these universities. However, nothing comes close to Oxbridge, LSE and UCL. I have not had the opportunity to discuss King's.
Generally, the "wow" factor is only generated by Oxbridge, LSE and UCL.
If we want to talk about specific subjects, I can share with you my view of how people in the economics related disciplines perceive UK universities (I am studying Economics). The ranking would be LSE ------- Oxbridge, Warwick, UCL. You would surprised how highly LSE is valued among economic students across Europe. It is perceived as the "holy grail" of any economic education.
You should note that this is only a snapshot of how people outside UK PERCEIVE these universities. I am not discussing facts or objective measures. I am simply looking at the perception of these universities. And as I said before, only Oxbridge, LSE and UCl generate the wow factor.
And Imperial lol don't forget Imperial
(personally don't agree with this "prestige" thing but it's true especially here in Asia)
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Original post by Andrella
UAL and Falmouth i believe are specific arts university. And I have heard UAL is very difficult to get into and Falmouth has a strong arts department.
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yes....I'm not sure what your point is.
You implied that low offer rates were related to prestige
Original post by Andrella
Its not just one of the hardest to get into in Scotland, its one of the hardest to get into in the UK (thats a fact) if you also want to ignore that
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Queen Margaret has a lower offer rate than St Andrews - is it more prestigious?
Arts University Bournemouth rejects a higher proportion of applicants than Edinburgh and Imperial - is it more prestigious?
Original post by PQ
yes....I'm not sure what your point is.
You implied that low offer rates were related to prestige
Queen Margaret has a lower offer rate than St Andrews - is it more prestigious?
Arts University Bournemouth rejects a higher proportion of applicants than Edinburgh and Imperial - is it more prestigious?
You implied that low offer rates were related to prestige
Queen Margaret has a lower offer rate than St Andrews - is it more prestigious?
Arts University Bournemouth rejects a higher proportion of applicants than Edinburgh and Imperial - is it more prestigious?
if you go further back in the conversation you would understand the point . As I have said earlier prestige in different in different industries .
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Original post by Andrella
if you go further back in the conversation you would understand the point . As I have said earlier prestige in different in different industries .
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It was noted that st Andrews was not prestige and I noted it was the highest ranked in Scotland and it was also pointed out that it might be the hardest to get into in Scotland but still that doesn't mean anything and I decided to point out that it was not only the hardest in Scotland but amongst top 5 in the UK . Further more, the conversation isnt about specialist university so bringing the entry criteria/ statistics for specialist unis doesn't necessarily make a solid point.
Original post by JooW
High rankings do not = high prestige. Outside of academia I think 9/10 people would be impressed by a uni such as Manchester and no-one would know St Andrews
Despite Prince William and a fair few other high-ups in society going there?
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