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    (Original post by Yaboi)
    Well then they aren't exactly Muslims are they, same with the Christians and Jews who basically disagree with everything the religion says and still claim to be one.
    What need is there to make the perfect the enemy of the good?
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    It's probably more appropriate to say most of the younger generation of Muslims in the West probably *identify* as being a muslim, even though they may not be a full practicing muslim.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    I think it's slowly modernising. Most young muslims are fine with homosexuality and don't practice extreme Islam unless they've been radicalised but that's a separate issue. As a whole, it's changing. I'd like to remind you that Jews and Christian's that practice their religion won't welcome gays with open arms as you might be fooled to believe.
    While not welcoming gays with open arms, practicing Jews and Christians don't throw them off tall buildings either.
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    :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I don't think you understand how statistics work. You don't need to survey every single British Muslims to give a fairly accurate representation of what they believe.
    Like I said, 2+ million British muslims, sample of 1000 = 0.05%>. Doesnt look like a pretty accurate representation, not even 1% of British muslims were surveyed.
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    (Original post by Ray04)
    Apparently neither are you, tell me how can you generalise 2+million British muslims from a sample of 1000? That's like a sample of 0.05% and you think that's representative?
    Obviously, you lack basic statistical knowledge. At this point, it is absolutely meaningless to argue about anything.
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    (Original post by Ray04)
    Like I said, 2+ million British muslims, sample of 1000 = 0.05%>. Doesnt look like a pretty accurate representation, not even 1% of British muslims were surveyed.
    As I said, you don't appear to understand how professional statistics work. It's a tried and tested science which has been shown to be pretty accurate. You would never be able to do surveys if everyone had to be interviewed.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Yes, but as the generations pass they will probably become a lot less conservative and Islam will essentially die just like Christianity has.
    This assumption - that peoples become more liberal as time progresses - is reassuring, but wrong.

    It is what liberals in the West used to believe, that with progress, people would simply become more liberal, and the conservative political parties would slowly die. That has not played out. Instead, populations in the West are becoming increasingly hostile to liberal politics.

    Studies have shown that second and third generation immigrants are more conservative than first generation immigrants. On the other hand, I'm fairly sure that younger muslims are indeed much more likely to do un-Islamic things, but this does not mean that they don't end up preaching a more conservative interpretation of Islam.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    What need is there to make the perfect the enemy of the good?
    I have no idea what this means but agreed.
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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    While not welcoming gays with open arms, practicing Jews and Christians don't throw them off tall buildings either.
    https://www.queerty.com/survivor-20150402
    Don't know if you've heard what happens to people at Christian conversion camps, many end up being killed in disgusting ways
    As for Jews, http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.668796

    You're right in saying Islam is probably the most aggressive in today's world, but each have scriptures against them and commit crimes against them. ISIS is a complex issue and more than just Islam, i can guarantee you almost all muslims despise of them.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    As I said, you don't appear to understand how professional statistics work. It's a tried and tested science which has been shown to be pretty accurate. You would never be able to do surveys if everyone had to be interviewed.
    "tried and tested science which has shown to be pretty accurate" - surveys showed brexit wouldn't happen, then brexit happened. Surveys showed trump wouldn't become president, trump became president. & many more instances where surveys, polls and statistics simply failed - http://www.statisticsviews.com/detai...verywhere.html
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    (Original post by Ray04)
    "tried and tested science which has shown to be pretty accurate" - surveys showed brexit wouldn't happen, then brexit happened. Surveys showed trump wouldn't become president, trump became president.
    First off, surveys aren't always accurate and no one said they were. Second, it's likely that the surveys on Trump and Brexit were skewed by people lying to the interviewers because they knew there was stigma against supporting Brexit and Trump.

    The Muslims polled on the other hand have given rather conservative, extreme answers, showing they are not afraid of voicing those opinions. And it's no secret that Muslims as a whole are more conservative than the general population.
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    (Original post by Yaboi)
    I have no idea what this means but agreed.
    It means that if you are a secular, liberal person concerned about the attitudes of Muslims (or Christians or Jews), you should be willing to settle for acceptance of homosexuals, even if in your view that means theists aren't following their religion 'properly.' If you make Muslims feel like they have to choose between either conservative Islam or atheism, and anything in between is selling out, you only make it more likely that they will choose the opinion least acceptable to you (i.e. total rejection of homosexuals). These things require compromise.
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    (Original post by Ray04)
    Apparently neither are you, tell me how can you generalise 2+million British muslims from a sample of 1000? That's like a sample of 0.05% and you think that's representative?
    OH MY ****ING GOD. EVERY ****ING THREAD.

    Can we please have a sticky thread with FAQs about how surveys and statistics work please?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    First off, surveys aren't always accurate and no one said they were. Second, it's likely that the surveys on Trump and Brexit were skewed by people lying to the interviewers because they knew there was stigma against supporting Brexit and Trump.

    The Muslims polled on the other hand have given rather conservative, extreme answers, showing they are not afraid of voicing those opinions. And it's no secret that Muslims as a whole are more conservative than the general population.
    Lmao i've been arguing about the wrong point,iv re read the poll by the guardian. - A large majority (91%) of the British Muslims who took part in the survey said they felt a strong sense of belonging in their local area, which is higher than the national average of 76%.However, when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed.

    - I would agree 52% is a more accurate representation of British muslims who agree/disagree on the legality of homosexuality than 91%
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    OH MY ****ING GOD. EVERY ****ING THREAD.

    Can we please have a sticky thread with FAQs about how surveys and statistics work please?
    As much as I have zero problem with Muslims, the appalling understanding of statistics I see every day on here leads me to the conclusion that educated middle-middle class liberals are just as stupid as racist blue collar UKIP types, they were just born into marginally better circumstances.
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    (Original post by Ray04)
    "tried and tested science which has shown to be pretty accurate" - surveys showed brexit wouldn't happen, then brexit happened. Surveys showed trump wouldn't become president, trump became president. & many more instances where surveys, polls and statistics simply failed - http://www.statisticsviews.com/detai...verywhere.html
    The EU referendum polling was pretty spot on. In the final days before it was held, it was considered too close to call and it did indeed deliver a close result.

    The election of Trump was brought about by a quirk of the US electoral system. The most surprising thing about the election was that he carried Wisconsin and Michigan, a scenario which had been observed in simulations by FiveThirtyEight but was considered unlikely.

    These are fictions invented by supposedly anti-establishment people who have fantasies of having a 'silent majority' on their side. Sorry to burst your bubble of ignorance, but none of those outcomes was a case of the polls predicting a landslide for one side, and instead seeing a landslide for the other.
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    (Original post by truthornot123)
    What do muslims think about LGBT rights? I saw a poll from 2009 which said 91%of British muslims thought homosexuality should be illegal?! Surely no true?! As a muslim what are your views on homosexuality?
    Although it is true homosexuality is forbidden in Islam as it is in other major religions, this does not mean Muslims are allowed (let alone encouraged to) treat anyone of the LGBT community with disrespect, prejudice, discrimination, violence, harshness, etc. etc. etc. Unfortunately, a lot of Muslims believe homosexuals/transgenders should be treated in these ways, when in fact, the religion clearly states everyone should be treated with the same level of respect and humanity. If a Muslim holds the belief that homosexuality is wrong, this is a personal belief for their own way of life, not something they can impose on others, so doesn't mean homophobia is acceptable from them. As a Muslim, you're supposed tolerate everyone and treat members of the LGBT community as you'd treat someone else. The intolerance and unfortunately violence that may be imposed by Muslims comes from culture, especially certain cultures which I don't need to name, that are notoriously known for treating LGBT people in this way. These individuals misguidedly interpret religion in a way that makes them act in these ways - actually, they often use religion as an excuse to impose their backwards values on others who believe don't fit this category.

    I think as time goes on, there will be more British-born Muslims who hold closer to Western values and know not to mix culture with religion, and know how to balance Western values with Islamic values, therefore bringing up like-minded children. I think the problem is there are a lot of people who hold very different cultural values and don't know how to accept Western values because they are taught to view it as negatively. And they continue to think their unusual beliefs are rooted in religion.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    As I said, you don't appear to understand how professional statistics work. It's a tried and tested science which has been shown to be pretty accurate. You would never be able to do surveys if everyone had to be interviewed.
    Don't think you do either.

    The sample size is too small and it probably isn't representative of the actual population either (e.g. breakdown of gender /age / occupation / country of origin etc). There also the issue of whether the question are designed to trigger certain expected answers, that would elicit different answers if the questions were asked in a more neutral way.

    you don't have to interview everyone to get a good survey, but you do need to interview enough people / different groups of people within the surveyed population to get results that reasonably reflect the whole population.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    https://www.queerty.com/survivor-20150402
    Don't know if you've heard what happens to people at Christian conversion camps, many end up being killed in disgusting ways
    As for Jews, http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.668796

    You're right in saying Islam is probably the most aggressive in today's world, but each have scriptures against them and commit crimes against them. ISIS is a complex issue and more than just Islam, i can guarantee you almost all muslims despise of them.
    ANY Muslim who doesn't hate ISIS isn't a Muslim. Therefore, all Muslims hate ISIS. Probably even more than non-Muslims, lol.
 
 
 
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