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Brits to be more diverse in 2017 Watch

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    Edit: These are the Brits awards, /not/ the Baftas, oops. These years' Baftas are being criticised for being too white.

    Acts including Craig David, Michael Kiwanuka and Nao have told Newsbeat an increase in diversity at this year's Brit Awards is "a great thing".

    Skepta is up against Kano, Craig David, Michael Kiwanuka and David Bowie for best male.

    While Lianne La Havas is nominated alongside Emeli Sande, Ellie Goulding, Nao, and Anohni for best female. Anohni is notably also transgender, which helps increase the representation of minority genders. In total, there are over 20 nominations for Black and Minority Ethnic artists.

    Compare that to the controversy of 2016, where white acts dominated the awards. Out of 48 nominations for British artists, only four musicians were from ethnic minorities. It led to #BritsSoWhite trending on Twitter and many stars openly criticising the event.

    Laura Mvula even threatened to boycott it. She told the BBC: "I guess the problem for me is knowing that there are young black kids growing up feeling that they're not acknowledged in society, in media and in mainstream music."

    Months later organisers announced a shake-up, where more people from ethnic minorities were put on the panel.

    Now Skepta, who previously called the Brits "embarrassing" for its lack of diversity, is leading the nominations with Little Mix.

    Some of those nominees have told us they are glad an imbalance appears to have been addressed.

    Michael Kiwanuka - Best British Male Solo Artist and British Album of the Year
    "This is a dream come true and the increase in diversity is a great thing. The importance of diversity is that's what music is. It shows you another view point of how you think in your head and it makes you see the world differently. It's not just about the colour of your skin, but it's part of it."

    Nao - Best British Female Solo Artist
    "I didn't think I would be nominated, if I did I thought it would be for Best Newcomer. It's very surreal. The one thing about Britain is how amazingly diverse it is. We are all in this melting pot together. Music is made by everyone and it's for everyone. Put all of us on the stage, black, white, f*t, skinny, whatever."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/articl...-white-in-2017

    Its good to see that these awards are becoming more diverse. Hopefully other awards will follow suite.
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    Little Mix nominated- why?
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    How stupid, nominations and wins should be based on merit alone. If minorities "aren't being nominated enough", they should put better stuff out.
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    How stupid, nominations and wins should be based on merit alone. If minorities "aren't being nominated enough", they should put better stuff out.
    The awards should reflect the British population, which is increasingly non-white. Hypothetically, music that sounds good to a minority might not sound good to a judge, and vice versa. If this is the case, then it would be unfair to rely on a majority white panel to decide the best music, because they'd be biased towards white artists.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The awards should reflect the British population, which is increasingly non-white. Hypothetically, music that sounds good to a minority might not sound good to a judge, and vice versa. If this is the case, then it would be unfair to rely on a majority white panel to decide the best music, because they'd be biased towards white artists.
    Why don't we just have the best people win it, regardless of race? And no, a white panel isn't going to be biased towards white artists, unless they're racists which they probably aren't.
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    (Original post by serions871)
    Why don't we just have the best people win it, regardless of race? And no, a white panel isn't going to be biased towards white artists, unless they're racists which they probably aren't.
    Everyone is racially biased to a certain degree. Its not a black and white (heh) matter of being a racist or not.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The awards should reflect the British population, which is increasingly non-white. Hypothetically, music that sounds good to a minority might not sound good to a judge, and vice versa. If this is the case, then it would be unfair to rely on a majority white panel to decide the best music, because they'd be biased towards white artists.
    Implying white people only like white music
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    (Original post by PAStudent1996)
    Implying white people only like white music
    No, its implying that white people probably prefer a particular style of music on average.
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    I do love inventing issues purely based on the colour of people winning awards that affect almost nothing.
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Michael Kiwanuka
    Nao
    Kano
    Lianne La Havas
    Anohni
    I have no idea who any of these people are. Are they deliberately scraping the bottom of the barrel just to say they're "diverse"?

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Hypothetically, music that sounds good to a minority might not sound good to a judge, and vice versa. If this is the case, then it would be unfair to rely on a majority white panel to decide the best music, because they'd be biased towards white artists.
    There's no way of saying if that's the case at all tho. And surely if music is only good to a minority of the population it just must not be that good generally?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    No, its implying that white people probably prefer a particular style of music on average.
    Loads of white people listen to Future, Rae Sremmurd, The Weeknd and other artists. They aren't British though
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    (Original post by MildredMalone)
    How stupid, nominations and wins should be based on merit alone. If minorities "aren't being nominated enough", they should put better stuff out.
    These brits are an accurate reflection of what is part of our culture now. It must really suck for you that modern pop culture is very diverse, you old conservatives must be devastated.
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    (Original post by saraxh)
    Loads of white people listen to Future, Rae Sremmurd, The Weeknd and other artists. They aren't British though
    Cultural appropriation m8

    I'm talking about averages, not individual cases. But I'd invite you to compare audiences for classical music and rap.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The awards should reflect the British population, which is increasingly non-white. Hypothetically, music that sounds good to a minority might not sound good to a judge, and vice versa. If this is the case, then it would be unfair to rely on a majority white panel to decide the best music, because they'd be biased towards white artists.
    Is there some kind of secret factory where non-whites are being produced at huge rates?
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    (Original post by Mistletoe)
    Is there some kind of secret factory where non-whites are being produced at huge rates?
    Its called Africa



    Why do you ask?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Its called Africa



    Why do you ask?
    Lots of them will be mixed race or white, especially by 2050.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The awards should reflect the British population, which is increasingly non-white. Hypothetically, music that sounds good to a minority might not sound good to a judge, and vice versa. If this is the case, then it would be unfair to rely on a majority white panel to decide the best music, because they'd be biased towards white artists.
    Why should it 'reflect the british population'? It's an award, it is literally only given to people who are abnormally good and being so has no correlation to the amount of a certain race in any given country. How can an award for exceptional achievement be relatively representative of all people? Its entire purpose is to be the opposite.

    The topic matter is inherently subjective but what is your basis for this assertion? If there are representative judges but they're all third generation immigrants is that good enough? Or should they be first generation? If you draw a disparity then why, they're both representatives of the race so are you actually attempting to get a certain type of music over promoted by relying on cultural affinity and if you do not is the implication what sort of music each race likes is inherently genetic as in a factor not affected by social factors or environment etc which would need serious evidence to assert. Otherwise where is the evidence for the race of the judge making a difference in regards to 'minority music' whatever that is (rap, a traditionally heavily black music type, is massive with many multiplatinum selling black artists, a huge white audience and ranks as incredibly profitable so by what metric are you asserting 'minority music'. It cannot be minority by definition if its at an award for essentially popularity - the BAFTA's never ask musicalbob from yt because it turns out he's actually really good. The closest to minority music would be indie which is entirely unrepresented. I presume you mean minority race music but then why is their race relevant if its a mainstream form of music?)

    Why would a majority white panel be inherently biased against minorities? Would their brains really enjoy the tune but say 'hold on, he's not white!' and ruin their enjoyment? As a side note its funny a lot of the people who whinged about this now stand to win something - suspicious much.


    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Everyone is racially biased to a certain degree. Its not a black and white (heh) matter of being a racist or not.
    Assuming that premise to be true (there is some validity in biological tribalism) would there not be an argument the 'tribe' is redefined especially in such a multicultural society not to white but to abstractly 'British' in the same way mesopotamia was 'Roman' or most of the east 'persian' at various points in history. The tribe became not simply a racial tribe but a tribe formed of its peoples - another example would be religions. People would defend religious allies of another race as 'tribesmen of their kin' before they'd defend someone of the same colour who was an athiest. The imperative seems to have shifted to a postmodern sitting, such as the male biological aggression is now shifted to work and to abstract 'victory' and 'success' rather than the traditional hunter/gatherer instiinct.

    Enjoyed the pun, but again assuming this premise to be true (although especially in things like music it would need rigorous validation) then why is it assumed that people can't look beyond such biases? Especially in our societies with so many high flying people of all colours its not as if this is a be all and end all, rather it seems an auxiliary fact at best and close to socially outdated at worst. A good example is if they make you an extra £10,000 a year then nobody is going to say 'oh, but they're black' and hire someone who can't make that cash. The structure of our society punishes any adherence to this bias which is a learned pattern and trains the bias out of people or makes it so superfluous as to be irrelevant in the same way everyone can tell you 'polish people are lazy' your whole life but that stereotype won't withstand reality when you observe the opposite to be true. Similarly the bias won't withstand the demands of reality in a post tribal society of enormous multiculturalism because (a) there is no solidifying of race as the indicator of tribe (b) The bias would actively negatively effect you in numerous ways from silly little choices like (to use a stereotype for simplicity) selecting a white kid who can't play basketball because of shared race and losing the game, to losing lots of money in a corporate environment and so on, and (c) both (a) and (b) would remove the racial bias in order to achieve success in the society in which that person exists.

    "Laura Mvula even threatened to boycott it. She told the BBC: "I guess the problem for me is knowing that there are young black kids growing up feeling that they're not acknowledged in society, in media and in mainstream music."

    Firstly what validity is there to 'not acknowledged'. You're acknowledged if you're good because you make a lot of money. Society and its elements shouldn't constantly pander to represent every demographic in specificity. Should I complain there are no shows about working class people and no acknowledgement of my difficulties because of lower income and doesn't deal with problems specific to me? A story is a universal entity and not being able to get on board with principles like 'the human condition' or other universal elements of storytelling because the main character isn't also black and doesn't also own a renault is quite frankly psychotic.

    Also if her statement is true then her action is pointless. If they dont want black people to show up then by boycotting it you do that for them without them having to be racially prejudiced - plus you won't make an impact because you wouldn't be in line to win anything anyway. She assumes her lack of presence will cause some kind of worry, concern, or conversation and therefore her principle that there is no acknowledgement is false. Also how they 'feel' is a matter of irrelevancy. A lot of white people feel irrelevant in society too, and Asians but if the former came forwards and said this Mvula would likely just laugh at them and this is why in part I oppose any statement where 'I feel' is tantamount to fact and also the whole excessive racial focus. I know people who have suffered from depression because they don't feel represented in society, they feel alone and like nobody cares and they were all white except for one (Asian) but there is no celebrity making a fuss about them - nor about the huge spike in suicides over the last ten years of primarily males.

    The issues focused on are cherry picked rather than attempting to create a better society for all so we end up in a situation where 'manspreading' gets a page in every newspaper but a huge spike in male suicides doesn't even get an analytical mention or it does as 'toxic masculinity' which is dismissive and actually means 'they're killing themselves because men are wrong and don't know how men should be'.

    My point is all this 'activism' is agenda based beyond the realms of common sense and Mvula 'feeling something' does not make it so particularly when her own course of action indicates a disparity with her proposal.
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    (Original post by Mistletoe)
    Lots of them will be mixed race or white, especially by 2050.
    I assume this is satire? In case its not:

    Whites in Africa have around the same birth rate as whites in the developed world. Their numbers will decrease unless there is significantly more immigration of white people to Africa.

    As for mixed-race people, I really wouldn't know, but there aren't that many of them in Africa, and there is no reason to believe their numbers will grow faster than the black population. For example, 100 years ago South Africa was only 67% black, but today it is over 80%, while the proportion of mixed race people has stayed roughly the same, around 9% of the population.
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    GonvilleBromhead Holy crap you've written an essay!

    I greatly appreciate your post.

    I'll reserve this place so that I can respond to your post when I've got time.

    But have a PRSOM in the meantime.

    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    Assuming that premise to be true (there is some validity in biological tribalism) would there not be an argument the 'tribe' is redefined especially in such a multicultural society not to white but to abstractly 'British' in the same way mesopotamia was 'Roman' or most of the east 'persian' at various points in history.
    Yes, there is an argument for that; but there is racial tribalism built into us, as has been demonstrated with studies on infants and children.

    (I'll write more later, you evidently deserve a deeper discussion)

    The tribe became not simply a racial tribe but a tribe formed of its peoples - another example would be religions. People would defend religious allies of another race as 'tribesmen of their kin' before they'd defend someone of the same colour who was an athiest. The imperative seems to have shifted to a postmodern sitting, such as the male biological aggression is now shifted to work and to abstract 'victory' and 'success' rather than the traditional hunter/gatherer instiinct.

    Enjoyed the pun, but again assuming this premise to be true (although especially in things like music it would need rigorous validation) then why is it assumed that people can't look beyond such biases? Especially in our societies with so many high flying people of all colours its not as if this is a be all and end all, rather it seems an auxiliary fact at best and close to socially outdated at worst. A good example is if they make you an extra £10,000 a year then nobody is going to say 'oh, but they're black' and hire someone who can't make that cash. The structure of our society punishes any adherence to this bias which is a learned pattern and trains the bias out of people or makes it so superfluous as to be irrelevant in the same way everyone can tell you 'polish people are lazy' your whole life but that stereotype won't withstand reality when you observe the opposite to be true. Similarly the bias won't withstand the demands of reality in a post tribal society of enormous multiculturalism because (a) there is no solidifying of race as the indicator of tribe (b) The bias would actively negatively effect you in numerous ways from silly little choices like (to use a stereotype for simplicity) selecting a white kid who can't play basketball because of shared race and losing the game, to losing lots of money in a corporate environment and so on, and (c) both (a) and (b) would remove the racial bias in order to achieve success in the society in which that person exists.

    "Laura Mvula even threatened to boycott it. She told the BBC: "I guess the problem for me is knowing that there are young black kids growing up feeling that they're not acknowledged in society, in media and in mainstream music."

    Firstly what validity is there to 'not acknowledged'. You're acknowledged if you're good because you make a lot of money. Society and its elements shouldn't constantly pander to represent every demographic in specificity. Should I complain there are no shows about working class people and no acknowledgement of my difficulties because of lower income and doesn't deal with problems specific to me? A story is a universal entity and not being able to get on board with principles like 'the human condition' or other universal elements of storytelling because the main character isn't also black and doesn't also own a renault is quite frankly psychotic.

    Also if her statement is true then her action is pointless. If they dont want black people to show up then by boycotting it you do that for them without them having to be racially prejudiced - plus you won't make an impact because you wouldn't be in line to win anything anyway. She assumes her lack of presence will cause some kind of worry, concern, or conversation and therefore her principle that there is no acknowledgement is false. Also how they 'feel' is a matter of irrelevancy. A lot of white people feel irrelevant in society too, and Asians but if the former came forwards and said this Mvula would likely just laugh at them and this is why in part I oppose any statement where 'I feel' is tantamount to fact and also the whole excessive racial focus. I know people who have suffered from depression because they don't feel represented in society, they feel alone and like nobody cares and they were all white except for one (Asian) but there is no celebrity making a fuss about them - nor about the huge spike in suicides over the last ten years of primarily males.

    The issues focused on are cherry picked rather than attempting to create a better society for all so we end up in a situation where 'manspreading' gets a page in every newspaper but a huge spike in male suicides doesn't even get an analytical mention or it does as 'toxic masculinity' which is dismissive and actually means 'they're killing themselves because men are wrong and don't know how men should be'.

    My point is all this 'activism' is agenda based beyond the realms of common sense and Mvula 'feeling something' does not make it so particularly when her own course of action indicates a disparity with her proposal.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    I assume this is satire? In case its not:

    Whites in Africa have around the same birth rate as whites in the developed world. Their numbers will decrease unless there is significantly more immigration of white people to Africa.

    As for mixed-race people, I really wouldn't know, but there aren't that many of them in Africa, and there is no reason to believe their numbers will grow faster than the black population. For example, 100 years ago South Africa was only 67% black, but today it is over 80%, while the proportion of mixed race people has stayed roughly the same, around 9% of the population.
    You seem to be indicating that whites are going to go extinct.
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    (Original post by Mistletoe)
    You seem to be indicating that whites are going to go extinct.
    Not within our lifetimes. And if whites do go extinct, so what? Most people will probably be mixed-race by the year 3000.
 
 
 
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