If gender is a social construct, then transsgenderism is a delusion Watch

ckingalt
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The premise of transgender identity suggests that a biological male can be born with a female brain, or that a biological female can be born with a male brain.

The idea that gender is a social construct implies that there is no such thing as a female or male brain. Society teaches females to behave a certain way, and males to behave a certain way.

Leftists tend to support both ideologies. How can a biological male be born with a female brain when a female brain does not actually exist?
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CookieButter
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(Original post by ckingalt)
The premise of transgender identity suggests that a biological male can be born with a female brain, or that a biological female can be born with a male brain.

The idea that gender is a social construct implies that there is no such thing as a female or male brain. Society teaches females to behave a certain way, and males to behave a certain way.

Leftists tend to support both ideologies. How can a biological male be born with a female brain when a female brain does not actually exist?
Gender is a social constrcut when it suits them and not a social construct when it doesn't...

Your logical argument is going to fall on deaf ears....this whole debate is not about facts or truth...its about imposing a crazy, illogical, feminist gender agenda on society irrespective of logic.
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Dandaman1
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"Gender is constructed by society."

"I was born a boy trapped in a girl's body."

Makes perfect sense. And what's going to happen to transgender people if gender roles, clothing and so on mix and the 'socially constructed' binary is lost? Do they just become like everyone else and cease to be transgender when there's nothing left to transcend? Doesn't that bring into question the legitimacy of it all in the first place?
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anosmianAcrimony
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I don't buy that gender is entirely constructed by society - I reckon it's partially socially constructed and partially hard-wired.

There are enough transgender people, and enough transgender people who knew there was something odd with them even before they found other transgender people on the internet, that I think it's a legitimate phenomenon. Taking them at face value and treating them as people with their brains in the wrong-shaped bodies seems to lead to better outcomes than treating the whole thing as a mental disorder. Only they can say what's really going on in their heads, but practically speaking, I think extending credence is probably the right thing to do.

I don't think those two views, as I've written them above, are mutually exclusive. They aren't quite the same as the ones you stated in your OP. Then again, not all liberals think along the exact lines you've described, as I've just proved.
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Willy Pete
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jape
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It's a delusion either way. Social Constructionism arguably makes more sense than idea that all of the physical implications of biological sex just stop at the neck.
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RobML
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
I don't buy that gender is entirely constructed by society - I reckon is partially socially constructed and partially hard-wired.

There are enough transgender people, and enough transgender people who knew there was something odd with them even before they found other transgender people on the internet, that I think it's a legitimate phenomenon. Taking them at face value and treating them as people with their brains in the wrong-shaped bodies seems to lead to better outcomes than treating the whole thing as a mental disorder. Only they can say what's really going on in their heads, but practically speaking, I think extending credence is probably the right thing to do.

I don't think those two views, as I've written them above, are mutually exclusive. They aren't quite the same as the ones you stated in your OP. Then again, not all liberals think along the exact lines you've described, as I've just proved.
I buy that gender dysphoria is a misleadingly named phenomena that is reality has nothing to do with gender, but is merely a function of mind/sexed body interaction within an individual. Gender is a social construct by definition- it is a normative category for sorting and grouping individuals based on characteristics associated with a particular sex, but not constitutive of them.
For some reason we still hold gender identity definitive of our personhood, which I believe is unnecessary and harmful to women, men and especially non-binary folk.

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CookieButter
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(Original post by jape)
It's a delusion either way. Social Constructionism arguably makes more sense than idea that all of the physical implications of biological sex just stop at the neck.
my friend, I don't want to disagree with you because I often like your comments but I am going to take an exception here. Let me tell you that it is only a delusion when you are uninformed in human anatomy and physiology.

"Common sense tells us that boys and girls behave differently. We see it every day at home, on the playground, and in classrooms. But what the culture hasn’t told us is that the brain dictates these divergent behaviors. The impulses of children are so innate that they kick in even if we adults try to nudge them in another direction. One of my patients gave her three-and-a-half-year-old daughter many unisex toys including a bright red fire truck instead of a doll. She walked into her daughter’s room one afternoon to find her cuddling the truck in a baby blanket, rocking it back and forth, saying, ‘Don’t worry, little truckie, everything will be all right.

This isn’t socialization. The little girl didn’t cuddle her ‘truckie’ because her environment moulded her unisex brain. There is no unisex brain. She was born with a female brain, which came complete with its own impulses. Girls arrive already wired as girls, and boys arrive already wired as boys. Their brains are different by the time they’re born, and their brains are what drive their impulses, values, and their very reality."
Eminent neuropsychiatrist, Louann Brizendine M.D.

Louann Brizendine is a world renowned researcher in the human brain. She subscribes to feminism. Early in her career she set out to prove the theory that gender was a social construct but instead wound up proving the opposite. I encourage people to read her book 'The Female Brain' from which I took the quotation I quoted above as well as the following:

"In writing this book I have struggled with two voices in my head – one is the scientific truth, the other is political correctness. I have chosen to emphasize scientific truth over political correctness even though scientific truths may not always be as welcome."

If anyone wants other medical sources/interesting reads for this subject area let me know. I also want to credit Mike Buchanan's "Feminism the Ugly Truth" for guiding me to this book.
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jape
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(Original post by CookieButter)
my friend, I don't want to disagree with you because I often like your comments but I am going to take an exception here. Let me tell you that it is only a delusion when you are uninformed in human anatomy and physiology.


"Common sense tells us that boys and girls behave differently. We see it every day at home, on the playground, and in classrooms. But what the culture hasn’t told us is that the brain dictates these divergent behaviors. The impulses of children are so innate that they kick in even if we adults try to nudge them in another direction. One of my patients gave her three-and-a-half-year-old daughter many unisex toys including a bright red fire truck instead of a doll. She walked into her daughter’s room one afternoon to find her cuddling the truck in a baby blanket, rocking it back and forth, saying, ‘Don’t worry, little truckie, everything will be all right.

This isn’t socialization. The little girl didn’t cuddle her ‘truckie’ because her environment moulded her unisex brain. There is no unisex brain. She was born with a female brain, which came complete with its own impulses. Girls arrive already wired as girls, and boys arrive already wired as boys. Their brains are different by the time they’re born, and their brains are what drive their impulses, values, and their very reality."
Eminent neuropsychiatrist, Louann Brizendine M.D.


Louann Brizendine is a world renowned researcher in the human brain. She subscribes to feminism. Early in her career she set out to prove the theory that gender was a social construct but instead wound up proving the opposite. I encourage people to read her book 'The Female Brain' from which I took the quotation I quoted above as well as the following:


"In writing this book I have struggled with two voices in my head – one is the scientific truth, the other is political correctness. I have chosen to emphasize scientific truth over political correctness even though scientific truths may not always be as welcome."


If anyone wants other medical sources/interesting reads for this subject area let me know. I also want to credit Mike Buchanan's "Feminism the Ugly Truth" for guiding me to this book.
I might not have been clear enough, but if you're suggesting that there are such things as "male/female brains" then we're actually in agreement. I meant to suggest that gender dysphoria is delusional whether you believe in biological determinism or social constructionism.
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CookieButter
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(Original post by jape)
I might not have been clear enough, but if you're suggesting that there are such things as "male/female brains" then we're actually in agreement. I meant to suggest that gender dysphoria is delusional whether you believe in biological determinism or social constructionism.
I might have misunderstood you. Apologies. I agree 100% whether you accept that gender is a social construct or that we are hard wired to specific genders from birth either way you refute and reject transgenderism.

This debate is crazy. It leaves you speechless. People have truly lost their minds in the effort of justifying this unjustifiable, illogical culture.

Let people be what they want to be!! He's a space rocket if he thinks he's a space rocket.......and this guy here is a cat....
True. He should be a cat if he wants to be a cat
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TorpidPhil
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(Original post by RobML)
I buy that gender dysphoria is a misleadingly named phenomena that is reality has nothing to do with gender, but is merely a function of mind/sexed body interaction within an individual. Gender is a social construct by definition- it is a normative category for sorting and grouping individuals based on characteristics associated with a particular sex, but not constitutive of them.
For some reason we still hold gender identity definitive of our personhood, which I believe is unnecessary and harmful to women, men and especially non-binary folk.

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Why you making serious posts for though Rob? :P
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CookieButter
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Gender is a social constrcut when it suits them and not a social construct when it doesn't....
example of this below:

(Original post by RobML)
I buy that gender dysphoria is a misleadingly named phenomena that is reality has nothing to do with gender, but is merely a function of mind/sexed body interaction within an individual. Gender is a social construct by definition- it is a normative category for sorting and grouping individuals based on characteristics associated with a particular sex, but not constitutive of them.
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Gender is not a social construct by any definition, my friend. The word gender is derived from two words. Genus, which refers to a specific class or kind of things and contrary to what you wrote in your comment, genus is not a normative category for sorting and grouping individuals based on characteristics that are associated with a particular sex but not constitutive of them. Genus is a positive description that is based on the distinct biology of things. The distinct biological characteristics of things. The second word is the french word 'Genre' which also refers to a specific category of things. So gender is the furthest thing from being normative.

Please, stop perpetuating this nonsensical, illogical, comical rubbish.
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RobML
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(Original post by CookieButter)
example of this below:



Gender is not a social construct by any definition, my friend. The word gender is derived from two words. Genus, which refers to a specific class or kind of things and contrary to what you wrote in your comment, it is not a normative category for sorting and grouping individuals based on characteristics that are associated with a particular sex but not constitutive of them. Genus is a positive description that is based on the distinct biology of things. The distinct biological characteristics of things. The second word is the french word 'Genre' which also refers to a specific category of things. So gender is the furthest thing from being normative.

Please, stop perpetuating this nonsensical, illogical, comical rubbish.
Etymology doesn't prove anything. Regardless, gender was originally used to describe either male or female persons, or to describe masculine and feminine word systems. Even going by these archaic definitions that no longer fit the usage of the word, gender would still be a social construct- personhood is a social construct and so are masculine and feminine word systems.
Please, where's the nonsense and illogicality?
Any definition of gender that makes it out as an objective feature of reality is indistinguishable from sex and therefore redundant.

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Trinculo
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It's all a load of pants.

I met a girl at a party and she was boring me to tears with all her non-binary identification as blah blah, her lesbianism and all that. Then she got a bunch of shots down her and she was dtf like anyone else.

The next day she blamed it on her alter-ego, (who was apparently bi-) who had taken control when she got trollied. Yeh, right. Basically, she got drunk and either forgot that she was supposed to be a lesbian, or got bored of it.
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CookieButter
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(Original post by RobML)
Etymology doesn't prove anything. Regardless, gender was originally used to describe either male or female persons, or to describe masculine and feminine word systems. Even going by these archaic definitions that no longer fit the usage of the word, gender would still be a social construct- personhood is a social construct and so are masculine and feminine word systems. Please, where's the nonsense and illogicality? Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm disappointed. I misjudged you. I thought you were clever enough to not need an elaboration but it seems I was wrong. So, allow me to elaborate.

I wasn't referring to the etymology of the word 'gender' but rather the words from which it is derived, which tell us a lot about its meaning and I am specifically referring to the word 'genus' here.

Genus is not normative. It is a positive description. In biology, genus is a science used to classify creatures based on their anatomy and physiology, not culture. This is how we have always defined gender. We have always defined gender not based on culture but rather science, anatomy and physiology.

Our biologies define our genus which defines our gender. Gender is only a social construct in the minds of those who have no appreciation for or understanding of science.
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Captain Haddock
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(Original post by CookieButter)

I wasn't referring to the etymology of the word 'gender' but rather the words from which it is derived.
Uhhhh...
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the bear
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(Original post by CookieButter)
Gender is a social constrcut when it suits them and not a social construct when it doesn't...

Your logical argument is going to fall on deaf ears....this whole debate is not about facts or truth...its about imposing a crazy, illogical, feminist gender agenda on society irrespective of logic.
facts and logic are just tools of the phallocrats used to oppress wimmin and otherkin
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CookieButter
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(Original post by Captain Haddock)
Uhhhh...
Etymology is the study of the origin of words Captain Haddock. In this context it does not prove anything. I am interested in the semantics/the meaning (not the etymology) of the words from which gender is derived. I am interested in the semantics/the meaning of the word 'Genus' in particular. That is my argument.
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Plantagenet Crown
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I don't think there's such thing as a "male brain" or a "female brain". I was watching a documentary on children with gender dysphoria and a neuroscientist was saying how someone (presumably scientists), if faced with a brain on its own, would not be able to determine the biological sex of the person it came from.
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ax12
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Gender is socially constructed, as it is the way that you interact societally and culturally depending on your sex. Just because it is a social construct, it doesn't mean that it isn't real. If someone is born male and they identify with the female gender, they may experience gender dysphoria. Just because they experience this, it doesn't mean that they would want to change their sex.

I think gender dysphoria and wanting a sex change are quite complicated, and there isn't really a good understanding of what is going on, or what the best way to deal with it is. However, we can see that a number of people are incredibly unhappy with the way that they are and the way that society categorises them. Calling them 'delusional' is completely unhelpful.
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