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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It strikes me May is heading for the same trap Cameron found himself in.

    She had originally planned a Brexit white paper. That could have discussed what we could realistically obtain and number crunch some consequences of this.

    May has now rejected this in favour of a "motherhood and apple pie" speech with no attempt to manage expectations on the part of the public.

    May may say that "no deal is better than a bad deal" but in the real world no politician ever comes back empty-handed. Either a deal is made or talks will continue. Saying you are unable to make a deal, is tantamount to an invitation to be replaced by someone else who promises he or she will get a deal.

    When the eventual deal is published, people are going to work out what the deal means for them. There is going to be a groundswell of opposition from a lot of different groups who are not going to see this as an opportunity but rather as a threat. That opposition is going to be focussed.

    Whether May thinks she can pitch this on the basis of "this deal or WTO rules", but surely the other EU states are not going to play that game. They are surely going to say that it is not too late to call the whole thing off. It is one of the unwritten rules of the EU club, occasionally broken, that EU members do not interfere in the politics of other member states. Particularly with the example of Putin in front of them, EU leaders are surely not going to give May the opportunity to "spin" the deal as she wants.
    Very well put.

    I think inevitably it will either come back to Parliament or another referendum with huge analysis of all the crappy consequences of a full single market dump and massive panic in the country.

    That won't be a bad thing either, because the eccentric victory of the post-Thatcher Tory Hard Right on what for them was a central issue and for everyone else was a yawnathon over national opinion will inevitably prove disastrous for everyone except some city traders and a few hedge funds and foreign oligarchical interests - should we really allow this tiny minority of well funded mad hats to plunge us into oblivion?
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Ah, another deplorable islamophobe!

    Yeah, we took in (close to) a million Muslims, and will take in more. Because we're good people, not cynical nationalists. And because our country can actually take the load, unlike yours.

    The fact that you bring up rape shows how uneducated you are about the topic (and probably academically too), so do stfu before I need to embarrass you any more.
    Yes you took in a million Muslim men. That in itself was about a 25% increase in your Muslim population. OK, maybe not quite that big an increase, but still of that order.

    And when the women and children come to join them too that will be another million won't it? Or are you such Islamophobes as to prevent them?

    Say another million come over the next few months when the Turkish deal breaks down.. And they bring a million dependants too.

    Your Muslim population will have almost doubled in a couple of years.

    Is it "Islamophobic" to mention that Muslims are driving trucks into shoppers at Christmas markets in Berlin?

    Yeah, stay in the EU, with its freedom of movement a core value. It will make help make Germany more and more Muslim.

    We are all laughing at your wilkommenkultur to the whole Muslm world.

    Danke und Inshallah!
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    Did you know that the UK is the only country in the world to have a 'banter' culture? All you're doing is putting each other down 'for fun'.
    Most languages don't even have an equivalent of 'banter'. Why would you want to tease and put down others, let alone your friends, for no reason?
    Oh come on... A German without a sense of humour? You're just playing stereotypes now!
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Yes you took in a million Muslim men. That in itself was about a 25% increase in your Muslim population. OK, maybe not quite that big an increase, but still of that order.

    And when the women and children come to join them too that will be another million won't it? Or are you such Islamophobes as to prevent them?

    Say another million come over the next few months when the Turkish deal breaks down.. And they bring a million dependants too.

    Your Muslim population will have almost doubled in a couple of years.

    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Is it "Islamophobic" to mention that Muslims are driving trucks into shoppers at Christmas markets in Berlin?
    No, it's just wrong. It was one Muslim. A regrettable incident, like any act of violence or terror committed by anyone. That doesn't mean you should close your door to Muslim refugees like you cowards are doing.


    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Yeah, stay in the EU, with its freedom of movement a core value. It will make help make Germany more and more Muslim.
    Again, why is that a problem? Diversity is good.

    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    We are all laughing at your wilkommenkultur to the whole Muslm world.
    Good on ya. Meanwhile, we're laughing at your GDP collapsing.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Yes, so? Why is that an issue? Oh right, you're a xenophobic, islamophobic sack of **** who refuses to give shelter to people fleeing from war and terror! I do hope you get knifed by a Muslim or anyone really.
    Why is your Muslim population doubling in two years an issue?


    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    No, it's just wrong. It was one Muslim. A regrettable incident, like any act of violence or terror committed by anyone. That doesn't mean you should close your door to Muslim refugees like you cowards are doing.
    Yes it does.

    But it is great that you are having to take them, pay for them, be culturally transformed by them. It takes the pressure off us, and speeds up the disintegration of the EU.

    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Good on ya. Meanwhile, we're laughing at your GDP collapsing.
    Laughing at the fastest growing economy in the G7 last year, (according to the IMF) after the Brexit vote?

    Who said the Germans had no sense of humour!
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    :gasp: You did? O to be Norwegian... I wish. :moon: Why did you think that?
    Hear hear

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It won't be that easy to spin.

    Labour and the Liberals will predictably say "its a failure". Big Nige will say he could have got a deal. Sources close to various cabinet ministers will explain the "mistakes" that May made which means she was unable to secure a deal. European politicians will set out the terms of the very generous offer which May rejected. If they are well crafted May will have difficulty saying what is wrong with those proposals. What is generally wrong with diplomatic offers is not what is written on the paper, but what is not written and criticising the omissions often involves what can't be said, because it implies a lack of good faith on the part of the other side.
    Most of what has been set out as goals can be achieved by simply walking away. Of the 12 points only 2 are clearly affected and maybe 2 or 3 collaterally so.

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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Why is your Muslim population doubling in two years an issue?

    You will find out, or your children and grandchildren will. Demography is destiny. You will eventually become foreigners in your own land.
    That is impossible. It's my country, I cannot become a foreigner in it. Your disgustingly xenophobic logic is flawed. Didn't expect anything else from a Brexiteer. Bunch of uneducated racists. Good thing you'll never amount to much in life.

    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Good thing too. Germans throughout history have had a taste for invading OTHER people's countries. It is poetic justice that the old Vaterland is going to be taken over by a foreign invasion.
    Good thing we're not getting invaded!

    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    But at least previous generations had a bit of fight in them. If perhaps a bit too much. Your generation are so guilty about the sins of the Nazis [..]
    No, that was my parents generation. Do you even know anything about history?

    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    You are bending over and letting that take you up the rear. Or your women's rears.
    So helping refugees is bending over, huh? You're properly deluded? Or had your girlfriend taken by a Muslim? Yeah, that must be it. Butthurt much?

    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    But it is great that you are having to take them, pay for them, be culturally transformed by them. It takes the pressure off us, [...]
    Ah, more than welcome, buddy. All of Europe knows that your laughable economy is faltering, your crumbling infrastructure incapable of absorbing more people, we're glad to help out.

    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Laughing at the fastest growing economy in the G7 last year, (according to the IMF) after the Brexit vote?
    Yup, and look at your pathetic currency now, and how your only major industry is planning relocation. You're the laughing stock of Europe, mate! Not that you weren't before...
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    x
    The irony of you calling people xenophobic is just hysterical, or maybe hypocritcal is the better word.
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    (Original post by _Morsey_)
    The irony of you calling people xenophobic is just hysterical, or maybe hypocritcal is the better word.
    Is it? Do you see a difference between hating and demonising a whole group of people purely and indiscriminately because of their religion, and disliking a part of a nation for voting on an issue based off of a racist and nationalist campaign? You should, you really should.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Most of what has been set out as goals can be achieved by simply walking away. Of the 12 points only 2 are clearly affected and maybe 2 or 3 collaterally so.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    That is a line which isn't open to her and still looks terrible from "Downing Street sources"
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    (Original post by _Morsey_)
    The irony of you calling people xenophobic is just hysterical, or maybe hypocritcal is the better word.
    It's both.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Is it? Do you see a difference between hating and demonising a whole group of people purely and indiscriminately because of their religion, and disliking a part of a nation for voting on an issue based off of a racist and nationalist campaign? You should, you really should.
    It still amazes me that people choose to stick their heads in the sand instead of facing what is staring them in the face. Take the easy way out as I don't want to be called racist. Let everyone into the country - they can't all be terrorists.

    You can say good bye to your economy as the migrants rape it dry. You can say goodbye to pork products. You can say goodbye to alcohol. Women will not be allowed to go out without a man. This is your future. Get used to it while you hide in your Liberal bubble.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Is it? Do you see a difference between hating and demonising a whole group of people purely and indiscriminately because of their religion, and disliking a part of a nation for voting on an issue based off of a racist and nationalist campaign? You should, you really should.
    Show me one aspect of the Vote Leave campaign that was 'racist'. Go on.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Did you know that the UK is the only country in the world to have a 'banter' culture?
    Feels good man

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    Seriously the very fact that the google definition and accepted definition of racism isn't even accurate or correct and to go around calling people racist in the wrong context just shows how much of a libtard, snowflake philostines some remoaners and some pro EU people actually are. E.g TitanicTeutonicPhil

    If anything their the hypocrites by generalizing that all British citizens who voted for brexit are all racists, Islamophobic, xenophobic nationalists and that every brexit voter only voted because of immigration
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    I actually really surprised that a remain PM like may would actually do the right thing...wow...kind of lost for words. I wonder if it's to do with her cabinet, or the fact that the EU is kicking up mud within negotiations? either way - fantastic news. leaving the EU completely was always going to be the best way to go if we want to control our nation's policies as a democracy.

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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    A majority of the British population voting to leave the EU following a campaign run purely on nationalism and xenophobia. Your most-read newspapers perpetuating hostility towards the EU, Europe, and immigrants.
    Citation needed.

    Did you know that the UK is the only country in the world to have a 'banter' culture? All you're doing is putting each other down 'for fun'. That really speaks volumes about the climate and general sentiment in your society. Hostility, dog-eat-dog, us-against-them. Disgusting. Most languages don't even have an equivalent of 'banter'. Why would you want to tease and put down others, let alone your friends, for no reason? Why do you feel the need to put yourself above others? Phantom limb pains of a lost empire?
    Is the most irrational, hypersensitive non-sequitur I've ever read. What inspired this screed?

    You don't. You really don't. Have you spoken to other Leavers?
    To quote Nigel Farage:

    I love Europe. I think it is the most wonderful, exciting continent on the planet. It has within it such limited geography, such massive diversity. You travel 100 miles through Europe you find different languages, different cultures, different histories and different cheeses. It is a wonderful place.

    It's a very common sentiment among Leavers, particularly those leading the campaign.

    The EU isn't yoking anyone down. It's to everyone's benefit, and you very soon will wish you were still in it.
    We shall see.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    I actually really surprised that a remain PM like may would actually do the right thing...wow...kind of lost for words. I wonder if it's to do with her cabinet, or the fact that the EU is kicking up mud within negotiations? either way - fantastic news. leaving the EU completely was always going to be the best way to go if we want to control our nation's policies as a democracy.

    A lot to do with David Davis. The man is relentless.
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    (Original post by tomywomy)
    Seriously the very fact that the google definition and accepted definition of racism isn't even accurate or correct and to go around calling people racist in the wrong context just shows how much of a libtard, snowflake philostines the remoaners and pro EU people actually are. E.g TitanicTeutonicPhil

    If anything their the hypocrites by generalizing that all British citizens who voted for brexit are all racists, Islamophobic, xenophobic nationalists and that every brexit voter only voted because of immigration
    If you don't like insults and generalisations then why are you being insulting and generalising?

    Isn't that a bit hypocritical of you?
 
 
 
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