Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Obiejess)
    Opinion polls =/= political mandate.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Fair point.

    It is a popular mandate though.
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Connor27)
    And you call me out for hyperbole :laugh:

    Implementation would be done by your government in the event of a yes vote as I've already said; but I can safely say that I don't believe the yes campaign would advocate for hangings or beheadings, more likely the humane and painless lethal injection.
    I don't think it's hyperbole at all (except we don't use guillotines anymore of course). Even my government, enlightened though it is, should not enforce it's policies on pain of death.

    To sum up my position - an why it will not change - it's not that I don't believe that no one deserves to die. Rather, I don't believe that any government - even by democratic mandate - has the right to kill any of it's people. The only exception is to save the lives of others (defensive war?) and that exception doesn't apply here because murderers can be locked up.
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I don't think it's hyperbole at all (except we don't use guillotines anymore of course). Even my government, enlightened though it is, should not enforce it's policies on pain of death.

    To sum up my position - an why it will not change - it's not that I don't believe that no one deserves to die. Rather, I don't believe that any government - even by democratic mandate - has the right to kill any of it's people. The only exception is to save the lives of others (defensive war?) and that exception doesn't apply here because murderers can be locked up.
    There's nothing stopping you voting for this and maintaining your ideological integrity by campaigning for a no vote.

    Why are you voting nay on the franchise then? Is it because you believe the plebs are uninformed and shouldn't get a say?
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Connor27)
    There's nothing stopping you voting for this and maintaining your ideological integrity by campaigning for a no vote.

    Why are you voting nay on the franchise then? Is it because you believe the plebs are uninformed and shouldn't get a say?
    I think you'll find Ray already explained why he believes this shouldn't go to a referendum, if you read his previous post.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    The death penalty is expensive, ineffective and, with miscarriages of justice inevitable, dangerous. Obvious nay

    But also a nay to referendums. Our constitution is rooted in parliamentary sovereignty, making referendums redundant. They are an irritating European import, conducive to the primacy of people's base whims and detrimental to reasoned debate.
    Rope is cheap and reuseable and normally does end in death.
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Obiejess)
    I think you'll find Ray already explained why he believes this shouldn't go to a referendum, if you read his previous post.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I must've overlooked that; it does seem to be a bit of a wishy washy excuse though, if referendums can be held on the establishment of elected mayors irl, why not on the reintroduction of the death penalty where there is far more room for debate and aspects to discuss.
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Nay. While I'm not ideologically opposed to capital punishment, I'm not convinced there has ever been a case which merits it considering punishment for punishment's sake is barbaric; furthermore, referendums diminish precisely what we attempt to achieve through representative democracy - taking important decisions out of the hands of laypersons, and yet maintaining individual representation in the formation of the law.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Opinion polls do not take into account contextual information. If people looked into all the details, merits and drawbacks of capital punishment then I doubt they'd support it in principle.

    Tbh I'm shocked that QQ and Connor proposed this - if a Libertarian party is going to propose pointless legislation then it shouldn't be permitted.
    • TSR Support Team
    • Peer Support Volunteers
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Absolutely not.
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emily Porter)
    Opinion polls do not take into account contextual information. If people looked into all the details, merits and drawbacks of capital punishment then I doubt they'd support it in principle.

    Tbh I'm shocked that QQ and Connor proposed this - if a Libertarian party is going to propose pointless legislation then it shouldn't be permitted.
    I absolutely agree Emily; people support it because of a lack of background knowledge, ByronicHero and the rest of the libertarians also agree with you here. However, we are proposing a referendum to educate people on the dangers of capital punishment and to end the issue for the time being.

    It isn't pointless; it serves the purpose of showing that we respect direct democracy and are willing to ask the difficult questions and debate the controversial topics; the only way to stop these frankly dreadful opinion polls is to tackle the 'hanging debate' head on.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Emily Porter)
    Tbh I'm shocked that QQ and Connor proposed this - if a Libertarian party is going to propose pointless legislation then it shouldn't be permitted.
    I didn't propose it. I only seconded it to stimulate debate.
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Nay. While I'm not ideologically opposed to capital punishment, I'm not convinced there has ever been a case which merits it considering punishment for punishment's sake is barbaric; furthermore, referendums diminish precisely what we attempt to achieve through representative democracy - taking important decisions out of the hands of laypersons, and yet maintaining individual representation in the formation of the law.
    Well, considering implementation is the responsibility of you in government in the event of a 'yes' victory; I think the first part of your objection is irrelevant. You could just make the law so that it is reintroduced and not used for "punishment's sake" as you say; a 'soft' reinstatement if you will

    Although it is true that representative democracy is important in RL UK; I would argue since we don't have constituencies and that direct sense of accountability, then the burkean model doesn't really work; if theoretically a whole town in Wales was pissed off about being discriminated against by parliament, who would they appeal to under a country wide party list d'hondt system that we have? That's why I feel the MHoC would benefit from more direct democracy, it's more democratic under the electoral system that we use, funny that someone said it was a European Import, yeah, so is the voting system we use here, they go well together wouldn't you agree?
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Paracosm)
    Absolutely not.
    Nice to see the supposedly 'liberal' party leadership united in it's aim of stifling individualism and direct democracy 👍🏻
    • TSR Support Team
    • Peer Support Volunteers
    • Clearing and Applications Advisor
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Connor27)
    Nice to see the supposedly 'liberal' party leadership united in it's aim of stifling individualism and direct democracy 👍🏻
    I'm glad you approve.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Connor27)
    Nice to see the supposedly 'liberal' party leadership united in it's aim of stifling individualism and direct democracy 👍🏻
    Nice to see the supposedly 'libertarian' "party" attempt to implement the death penalty.

    We have a representative democracy for a reason.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Nice to see the supposedly 'libertarian' "party" attempt to implement the death penalty.

    We have a representative democracy for a reason.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    That second set of quotation marks concerns me; considering you have a 50/50 chance of becoming the next speaker. I don't imagine you'd last very long though if you did attempt to prevent our formation.

    Read my reply to TDA with regard to representative democracy.
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Nice to see the supposedly 'libertarian' "party" attempt to implement the death penalty.

    We have a representative democracy for a reason.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I know isn't it so awful that the population are so out of touch with the political class, you just can't trust them.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Aston Villa FC Supporter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Nay, no petition.
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Connor27)
    That second set of quotation marks concerns me; considering you have a 50/50 chance of becoming the next speaker. I don't imagine you'd last very long though if you did attempt to prevent our formation.

    Read my reply to TDA with regard to representative democracy.
    Regardless of whether you become a party, you are not currently a party, and myself as leader of the liberal party and myself as Speaker would be different things


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Wiki Support Team
    • Political Ambassador
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I know isn't it so awful that the population are so out of touch with the political class, you just can't trust them.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    As I've said previously, there's no mandate for this until a party pledges it at an election and is elected with it in their manifesto


    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 21, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.