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P66 – Capital Punishment Referendum Petition 2017 Watch

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    As much as i disagree with the death penalty . I see no harm in asking the public opinion on that matter however the referendum should not be binary
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    Nay, no petition.
    It was initially more detailed, but the speaker advised me that it has to be in this basic format.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    It was initially more detailed, but the speaker advised me that it has to be in this basic format.
    More detail please
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    (Original post by Kyx)
    More detail please
    This was the initial bill before Byronic suggested a petition and then Fez instructed me to make it in the format in the OP;

    Capital Punishment (Referendum) Bill 2017

    A Bill to legislate for a referendum on the reintroduction of capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes.

    BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—

    1 The referendum

    (1) A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should reintroduce capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes.

    (2) The Speaker of the Model House of Commons must appoint the day on which the referendum is to be held (the poll opens).

    (3) The day appointed under subsection (2) must be no sooner than 28th February 2017 and no later than 8 March 2017.

    (4) The question that is to appear on the ballot papers is— “Should the United Kingdom reintroduce capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes?”

    (5) The poll options are to be— “Yes”, “No”, and “Spoilt Ballot”

    (6) The poll is to last for seven days.

    2 Entitlement to vote in the referendum

    The entitlement of those able to vote will be accounts over 10 posts and over three months old.

    3 Authority

    The option with most votes when the poll ends will be binding.

    4 Campaign and debates

    (1) A TSR-wide private message is to be sent at the Community Team’s discretion while the poll is open.

    (2) The debate will be conducted with two campaign groups. Each supporting one of the potential outcomes.

    (3) Each campaign group will nominate their leader and deputy leader. They will oversee the campaign group.

    (a) Campaign groups will be created 21 days before the date the vote opens.

    (b) Campaign group leaders must be elected within 5 days of the campaign group being created.

    (4) Debates shall be held a week before the poll opens as follows:

    (a) A thread will created in UK politics by the Speaker of the MHoC a week before the debates asking for questions to be submitted. Anyone can post questions.

    (b) On the night of the debate (chosen by the Speaker), the leader and deputy leader from each campaign group will take part to answer questions selected by the Speaker from the thread.

    (c) In the event of a leader or deputy leader being unable to attend at short notice, they may appoint another campaign group member to take their place.

    5 Extent, commencement, and short title

    (1) This Act extends to the whole of the United Kingdom.

    (2) This Act comes into force on the day on which it is passed.

    (3) This Act may be cited as the Capital Punishment (Referendum) Act 2017

    Notes:

    This bill legislates for a referendum on the reintroduction of capital punishment in the UK.

    We in the libertarian party have noticed the multiple opinion polls showing a clear majority among the general public for reinstatement; but despite this because of politicians being personally against the issue is ignored.

    Debate is healthy, and even though members of the libertarian party may be opposed to capital punishment, we believe that the debate must be held due to popular demand, and the people deserve a say.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    This was the initial bill before Byronic suggested a petition and then Fez instructed me to make it in the format in the OP;

    Capital Punishment (Referendum) Bill 2017

    A Bill to legislate for a referendum on the reintroduction of capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes.

    BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—

    1 The referendum

    (1) A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should reintroduce capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes.

    (2) The Speaker of the Model House of Commons must appoint the day on which the referendum is to be held (the poll opens).

    (3) The day appointed under subsection (2) must be no sooner than 28th February 2017 and no later than 8 March 2017.

    (4) The question that is to appear on the ballot papers is— “Should the United Kingdom reintroduce capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes?”

    (5) The poll options are to be— “Yes”, “No”, and “Spoilt Ballot”

    (6) The poll is to last for seven days.

    2 Entitlement to vote in the referendum

    The entitlement of those able to vote will be accounts over 10 posts and over three months old.

    3 Authority

    The option with most votes when the poll ends will be binding.

    4 Campaign and debates

    (1) A TSR-wide private message is to be sent at the Community Team’s discretion while the poll is open.

    (2) The debate will be conducted with two campaign groups. Each supporting one of the potential outcomes.

    (3) Each campaign group will nominate their leader and deputy leader. They will oversee the campaign group.

    (a) Campaign groups will be created 21 days before the date the vote opens.

    (b) Campaign group leaders must be elected within 5 days of the campaign group being created.

    (4) Debates shall be held a week before the poll opens as follows:

    (a) A thread will created in UK politics by the Speaker of the MHoC a week before the debates asking for questions to be submitted. Anyone can post questions.

    (b) On the night of the debate (chosen by the Speaker), the leader and deputy leader from each campaign group will take part to answer questions selected by the Speaker from the thread.

    (c) In the event of a leader or deputy leader being unable to attend at short notice, they may appoint another campaign group member to take their place.

    5 Extent, commencement, and short title

    (1) This Act extends to the whole of the United Kingdom.

    (2) This Act comes into force on the day on which it is passed.

    (3) This Act may be cited as the Capital Punsihemt (Referendum) Act 2017

    Notes:

    This bill legislates for a referendum on the reintroduction of capital punishment in the UK.

    We in the libertarian party have noticed the multiple opinion polls showing a clear majority among the general public for reinstatement; but despite this because of politicians being personally against the issue is ignored.

    Debate is healthy, and even though members of the libertarian party may be opposed to capital punishment, we believe that the debate must be held due to popular demand, and the people deserve a say.
    Saracen's Fez - if I make a few edits to this could it potentially act as the implementation bill?
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    As I've said previously, there's no mandate for this until a party pledges it at an election and is elected with it in their manifesto


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I guess I'll have a look at your voting record later and list all the things you've supported without a mandate according to this criterion

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Saracen's Fez - if I make a few edits to this could it potentially act as the implementation bill?
    No, that is a set of instructions that says how to carry out a referendum. That is not necessary, instructions on how to carry out a referendum are already written in the GD. What you need to put together is a bill that specifies how and for what offences capital punishment will be reintroduced.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    This was the initial bill before Byronic suggested a petition and then Fez instructed me to make it in the format in the OP;

    Capital Punishment (Referendum) Bill 2017

    A Bill to legislate for a referendum on the reintroduction of capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes.

    BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—

    1 The referendum

    (1) A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should reintroduce capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes.

    (2) The Speaker of the Model House of Commons must appoint the day on which the referendum is to be held (the poll opens).

    (3) The day appointed under subsection (2) must be no sooner than 28th February 2017 and no later than 8 March 2017.

    (4) The question that is to appear on the ballot papers is— “Should the United Kingdom reintroduce capital punishment as a penalty for the most serious crimes?”

    (5) The poll options are to be— “Yes”, “No”, and “Spoilt Ballot”

    (6) The poll is to last for seven days.

    2 Entitlement to vote in the referendum

    The entitlement of those able to vote will be accounts over 10 posts and over three months old.

    3 Authority

    The option with most votes when the poll ends will be binding.

    4 Campaign and debates

    (1) A TSR-wide private message is to be sent at the Community Team’s discretion while the poll is open.

    (2) The debate will be conducted with two campaign groups. Each supporting one of the potential outcomes.

    (3) Each campaign group will nominate their leader and deputy leader. They will oversee the campaign group.

    (a) Campaign groups will be created 21 days before the date the vote opens.

    (b) Campaign group leaders must be elected within 5 days of the campaign group being created.

    (4) Debates shall be held a week before the poll opens as follows:

    (a) A thread will created in UK politics by the Speaker of the MHoC a week before the debates asking for questions to be submitted. Anyone can post questions.

    (b) On the night of the debate (chosen by the Speaker), the leader and deputy leader from each campaign group will take part to answer questions selected by the Speaker from the thread.

    (c) In the event of a leader or deputy leader being unable to attend at short notice, they may appoint another campaign group member to take their place.

    5 Extent, commencement, and short title

    (1) This Act extends to the whole of the United Kingdom.

    (2) This Act comes into force on the day on which it is passed.

    (3) This Act may be cited as the Capital Punishment (Referendum) Act 2017

    Notes:

    This bill legislates for a referendum on the reintroduction of capital punishment in the UK.

    We in the libertarian party have noticed the multiple opinion polls showing a clear majority among the general public for reinstatement; but despite this because of politicians being personally against the issue is ignored.

    Debate is healthy, and even though members of the libertarian party may be opposed to capital punishment, we believe that the debate must be held due to popular demand, and the people deserve a say.
    I like the idea of a petition, but I would vote no in said petition. Change my vote to aye, it seems well-planned.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    There's nothing stopping you voting for this and maintaining your ideological integrity by campaigning for a no vote.

    Why are you voting nay on the franchise then? Is it because you believe the plebs are uninformed and shouldn't get a say?

    (Original post by Connor27)
    I must've overlooked that; it does seem to be a bit of a wishy washy excuse though, if referendums can be held on the establishment of elected mayors irl, why not on the reintroduction of the death penalty where there is far more room for debate and aspects to discuss.
    As Obiejess pointed out, I already explained my opposition.

    With regards to your response - I do not think referendum's for elected mayors are a very good use of resources. They're basically just done to make sure enough people care enough to vote when mayoral elections come around. We obviously would not have a referendum like that on TSR so it's a very poor comparison anyway. And, as I said, I don't think there's actually that much room for debate on this issue.

    It's easy to say 'muh democracy' and mockingly say that we consider the voting public to be 'plebs' but this is not a direct democracy and never was. It's a constitutional monarchy and de facto parliamentary republic. By convention we hold referendum's to settle constitutional issues but they are not an efficient mechanism for policy making in any other area.
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    Abstain. It's certainly an interesting topic but I do think it would be better to have it as a bill instead of a referendum.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Abstain. It's certainly an interesting topic but I do think it would be better to have it as a bill instead of a referendum.
    The whole point though is that we don't personally support bringing it back; we just want to cater to the public interest and have a more wide, longer debate on it than the 6 days in the house a bill gets.
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    Nay , only a barbaric state has capital punishment , it is the worst way to punish someone in so many ways , first of all , the condemned may well be not guilty , second of all , we get the old 2 wrongs doesent make it right that you learn in primary school when you hit someone because they p1ss you off , and then the teacher says that very cliche phrase. Also , it violates a person's undebated , inalienable right to live , just because the condemned violated someone's right to live , doesent mean that the state itself should do the same , does it? Also , as the U.S catholic conference said , We cannot teach that killing is wrong by killing , this is important , also a state that has the death penalty , does it also condone state sponsored murder? I think not , but that is exactly what a state with the death penalty is doing , it is condoning state sponsored murder , when you look at it that way , does it really seem logical to be teaching people that killing is bad , by killing people , condoning state sponsored murder , and potentially killing the wrong person.

    Also , whats even funnier is that a member of the LIBERTARIAN party , yes folks , the LIBERTARIAN party made this , the self-crowned liberators of people from state apparently support the death penalty!

    Also , conor , I seem to remember you saying 'i would hang the gits' in the murder sentencing bill.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    The whole point though is that we don't personally support bringing it back; we just want to cater to the public interest and have a more wide, longer debate on it than the 6 days in the house a bill gets.
    It's a fair point but I do think if we are going to get the CT to PM all TSR members, it should be for very big events such as GEs.
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    (Original post by ToastyBread)
    Also , whats even funnier is that a member of the LIBERTARIAN party , yes folks , the LIBERTARIAN party made this , the self-crowned liberators of people from state apparently support the death penalty!

    Also , conor , I seem to remember you saying 'i would hang the gits' in the murder sentencing bill.
    The Libertarian Party doesn't support the death penalty. I don't support the death penalty (you can read me saying so very clearly on the first page). Connor, to my knowledge, does not support the death penalty. I am not, in fact, aware of any Libertarian members who support the death penalty (though admittedly they might).

    Connor has made his reasons for proposing this clear, and I have made clear why I supported him in doing so. I'm willing to explain anything that isn't clear so please feel free to ask.
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    (Original post by ToastyBread)
    Nay , only a barbaric state has capital punishment , it is the worst way to punish someone in so many ways , first of all , the condemned may well be not guilty , second of all , we get the old 2 wrongs doesent make it right that you learn in primary school when you hit someone because they p1ss you off , and then the teacher says that very cliche phrase. Also , it violates a person's undebated , inalienable right to live , just because the condemned violated someone's right to live , doesent mean that the state itself should do the same , does it? Also , as the U.S catholic conference said , We cannot teach that killing is wrong by killing , this is important , also a state that has the death penalty , does it also condone state sponsored murder? I think not , but that is exactly what a state with the death penalty is doing , it is condoning state sponsored murder , when you look at it that way , does it really seem logical to be teaching people that killing is bad , by killing people , condoning state sponsored murder , and potentially killing the wrong person.

    Also , whats even funnier is that a member of the LIBERTARIAN party , yes folks , the LIBERTARIAN party made this , the self-crowned liberators of people from state apparently support the death penalty!

    Also , conor , I seem to remember you saying 'i would hang the gits' in the murder sentencing bill.
    I'd appreciate this translated into English.

    One thing I can decipher here using the enigma machine though is my mentioning hanging in the murder sentencing bill, that was a joke, admittedly a poor one but a joke nonetheless.

    I don't support the death penalty but I do support direct democracy and giving the electorate a say on an important issue that is illustrative of the disconnect between Westminster and the common man.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    It's a fair point but I do think if we are going to get the CT to PM all TSR members, it should be for very big events such as GEs.
    I believe it can be legislated to have the referendum without a mass PM?
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    Aye, we should allow as much democracy as our nation can hold!
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    I believe it can be legislated to have the referendum without a mass PM?
    According to the GD, a member of the Community Team will serve as the returning officer and I presume this would involve a Mass PM. If this is not the case, then I might change my mind.

    Saracen's Fez - please can you clarify this for me?
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Well, considering implementation is the responsibility of you in government in the event of a 'yes' victory; I think the first part of your objection is irrelevant. You could just make the law so that it is reintroduced and not used for "punishment's sake" as you say; a 'soft' reinstatement if you will
    If this argument holds, then an acceptable response to the petition would be to reintroduce capital punishment, but only permit it for offences which are worse than anything literally anyone has done ever.

    Although it is true that representative democracy is important in RL UK; I would argue since we don't have constituencies and that direct sense of accountability, then the burkean model doesn't really work; if theoretically a whole town in Wales was pissed off about being discriminated against by parliament, who would they appeal to under a country wide party list d'hondt system that we have? That's why I feel the MHoC would benefit from more direct democracy, it's more democratic under the electoral system that we use, funny that someone said it was a European Import, yeah, so is the voting system we use here, they go well together wouldn't you agree?
    Ahhhh I think this is an interesting question about the MHoC constitution. The way I see it, we don't have constituencies for procedural purposes, but they exist for the purpose of our MHoC Acts of Parliament. Therefore, they must be considered to exist for the purposes of this.
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    If this argument holds, then an acceptable response to the petition would be to reintroduce capital punishment, but only permit it for offences which are worse than anything literally anyone has done ever.



    Ahhhh I think this is an interesting question about the MHoC constitution. The way I see it, we don't have constituencies for procedural purposes, but they exist for the purpose of our MHoC Acts of Parliament. Therefore, they must be considered to exist for the purposes of this.
    Well yeah, you could do that, but then you'd be called out on it in the next GE for arguably defying the will of the people in a democratic referendum, all theoretical of course. (I would read the first page where Fez said that even though this is a petition, it is binding and the referendum will be held if this passes, however it is only advisory as Mr Speaker has also said, meaning you could ignore the result altogether if you so chose, but then we come back to the political sovereignty thing again.

    I would disagree, this isn't a virtual act, it's an actual referendum that'd take place on TSR, using broadly the same electorate as the generals, for this purpose I'd call that a cop out argument.
 
 
 
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