Why aren't we tough on crime?

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MeYou2Night
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If I had the power, criminals would be properly punished and I would end this liberal nonsense that they some how have some sort of rights.

Any crime - 5 year minimum sentence and a £5000 fine.

Foreign criminals, even for petty crime would be deported upon conviction.

Burglars will sacrifice their rights upon breaking into the poor victims house, meaning the burglar scum can't sue the owner of the property if they get injured or even better bit by a dog.

Their face will pinned up on local notice boards so people know who they are and where they live.

There's much more but that would take too long to write.

Don't like it? Don't break he law in the first place - it's their choice to break the law. Simple.

In my ideal world, they'd all be executed and all prisons would be converted into affordable housing communities to help with the housing crisis.
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username2766878
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Agreed. Years of a cross-political party consensus on "rehabilitative" justice has led to a total watering down of our justice system.
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username2766878
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(Original post by Onde)
Rehabilitation has been shown to be far more effective at reducing crime than imprisonment.
Rehabilitation through providing useful workforce skills sure, not the psuedo-psychiatric rehabilitation we have now where every prisoner is treated as a victim of mental illness and individual responsibility is outsourced and dissipated.
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Jammy Duel
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cuz rehabilitashun, duh.
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MagicNMedicine
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The OP has some good ideas.

We have enough CCTV and speed cameras that we have the technology to observe people and find out when they are committing crimes especially when the snoopers charter goes through and we can monitor communications.

To tackle the state inefficiency we could bring the private sector in to it: offer private companies the opportunity to compete for contracts in identifying crimes being committed and put them on commission so they get a certain percentage of the £5000 fine (to use the OPs example). The more crimes they discover the more profitable they are. We could also allow them the right to place innovative crime discovery systems in public or (in some cases) private places to encourage innovation in the development of crime monitoring technology.

Of course the do gooder liberals will say "muh civil rights". Don't commit crimes then. Abide by the laws of the State and the State will protect you from harm from others.
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elekro
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oh my, I'm surprised that you are not the minister of defence yet!
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username2950448
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(Original post by MeYou2Night)
If I had the power, criminals would be properly punished and I would end this liberal nonsense that they some how have some sort of rights.
Are you suggesting that all criminals should, upon the commission of a criminal offence, immediately lose all their rights?

Any crime - 5 year minimum sentence and a £5000 fine.
This seems pretty ludicrous and completely impractical. Do you know how many criminal offences are committed per year? If we were to put everybody that committed a criminal offence in prison for 5 years (at a minimum, regardless of the severity (or lack thereof)) of their crime, we would need a Johnny English style prison plan (that is to say, a hell of a lot more prisons and prison staff - worth noting that prisons are already hugely understaffed and underfunded).

Foreign criminals, even for petty crime would be deported upon conviction.
I agree with this. Non-citizen residents in the U.K. have no innate right to stay in the U.K. and benefit from all this brings.

Burglars will sacrifice their rights upon breaking into the poor victims house, meaning the burglar scum can't sue the owner of the property if they get injured or even better bit by a dog.
I agree with this.

Their face will pinned up on local notice boards so people know who they are and where they live.
This is ridiculous; what would the purpose of this be? It would only encourage vigilante justice and mob-rule.

In my ideal world, they'd all be executed and all prisons would be converted into affordable housing communities to help with the housing crisis.
You fail to recognise that even many minor driving/traffic offences are technically criminal offences. Worse, many offences are "strict liability", so to suggest executing everyone that breaks a law is absurd.


PS. Your lust for executions and vigilante justice is pretty disturbing.
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TheCosmicWizard
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(Original post by demaistre)
I've always thought the death penalty for repeat offenders (like a three strike rule or something) was a good idea, that way the ones who can be reformed are and the one's who can't be are removed.

I've also always found it amusing that modern Britain views a human life as only being worth about ten years or so, it's quite telling.
The death penalty does not work. Look at the countries that do have one. Has it stopped people committing crimes?

Locking people up does not work either look how full the prisons of the world are yet still people commit crime. Its very expensive both in resources / manpower /fiscally, for a country to keep people locked up 24 hours a day.

Privatisation of prisons I HEAR YOU SAY ? that's going remarkably well in the US of Ay is it not ? With more people per head of capita in prison than anywhere else on the planet and prison lobbyists arguing for tougher and tougher laws . is it ethical to make money from incarceration?

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88...tive-deterrent
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...ers/Per-capita

What's the answer , I don't know , maybe medical experiments that would benefit mankind to some degree that are currently unable to be carried out due to ethical reasons ?
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Objectivism2017
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(Original post by MeYou2Night)
If I had the power, criminals would be properly punished and I would end this liberal nonsense that they some how have some sort of rights.

Any crime - 5 year minimum sentence and a £5000 fine.

Foreign criminals, even for petty crime would be deported upon conviction.

Burglars will sacrifice their rights upon breaking into the poor victims house, meaning the burglar scum can't sue the owner of the property if they get injured or even better bit by a dog.

Their face will pinned up on local notice boards so people know who they are and where they live.

There's much more but that would take too long to write.

Don't like it? Don't break he law in the first place - it's their choice to break the law. Simple.

In my ideal world, they'd all be executed and all prisons would be converted into affordable housing communities to help with the housing crisis.
You need to remember that there are criminals and "criminals".

Someone who breaks into a car and steals is a criminal. Someone who accidentally drives 30cm into a bus lane is not a criminal although he is fined.

What is irritating is that the state seems to be going sort in real criminals and yet want to get tough in nonsense criminals like driving In bus lane, wrong turn, various categories of liberal speech crimes like using non-PC words etc.


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AperfectBalance
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I think we need to be a lot harsher on drug use and stop with the stupid rehabilitiation stuff and giving them probation and letting them off lightly.

Also In my opinion if someone breaks into your house that you should be allowed to use force in my opinion if they threatened me I would shoot them to disable them. We need tougher penalties and to clean the country of the degenerates that use illicit drugs
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joe cooley
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I have found that those keen on so called rehabilitation tend to be found amongst sections of society least likely to be victims of crime.

Virtue signalling is always best when someone else pays the price for it.
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demaistre
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(Original post by TheCosmicWizard)
The death penalty does not work. Look at the countries that do have one. Has it stopped people committing crimes?

Locking people up does not work either look how full the prisons of the world are yet still people commit crime. Its very expensive both in resources / manpower /fiscally, for a country to keep people locked up 24 hours a day.

Privatisation of prisons I HEAR YOU SAY ? that's going remarkably well in the US of Ay is it not ? With more people per head of capita in prison than anywhere else on the planet and prison lobbyists arguing for tougher and tougher laws . is it ethical to make money from incarceration?

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88...tive-deterrent
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...ers/Per-capita

What's the answer , I don't know , maybe medical experiments that would benefit mankind to some degree that are currently unable to be carried out due to ethical reasons ?
As far as I'm aware no state in the world has a system where people who commit burglary, assault etc three times are executed.
Also even if it doesn't deter crime I believe from a moral standpoint certain people should be put to death, child killers, serial killers etc.
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999tigger
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(Original post by MeYou2Night)
If I had the power, criminals would be properly punished and I would end this liberal nonsense that they some how have some sort of rights.

Any crime - 5 year minimum sentence and a £5000 fine.

Foreign criminals, even for petty crime would be deported upon conviction.

Burglars will sacrifice their rights upon breaking into the poor victims house, meaning the burglar scum can't sue the owner of the property if they get injured or even better bit by a dog.

Their face will pinned up on local notice boards so people know who they are and where they live.

There's much more but that would take too long to write.

Don't like it? Don't break he law in the first place - it's their choice to break the law. Simple.

In my ideal world, they'd all be executed and all prisons would be converted into affordable housing communities to help with the housing crisis.
So basically youd kill tens of thousands of people, Giw are you going to lock them up if you have sold all your prisons off? Good job you arent in power. Not really thought it through have you. Except the killing part.
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999tigger
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
The OP has some good ideas.

We have enough CCTV and speed cameras that we have the technology to observe people and find out when they are committing crimes especially when the snoopers charter goes through and we can monitor communications.

To tackle the state inefficiency we could bring the private sector in to it: offer private companies the opportunity to compete for contracts in identifying crimes being committed and put them on commission so they get a certain percentage of the £5000 fine (to use the OPs example). The more crimes they discover the more profitable they are. We could also allow them the right to place innovative crime discovery systems in public or (in some cases) private places to encourage innovation in the development of crime monitoring technology.

Of course the do gooder liberals will say "muh civil rights". Don't commit crimes then. Abide by the laws of the State and the State will protect you from harm from others.
Yes private police force. Cant see anything going wrong with that.
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l'etranger
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(Original post by TheCosmicWizard)
The death penalty does not work. Look at the countries that do have one. Has it stopped people committing crimes?
This is a very poor argument, the majority of countries which have the death penalty also have huge problems with poverty and social degradation.

Good countries like the United Arab Emirates have low levels of poverty and draconian laws and they enjoy extremely low rates of crime.

(Original post by joe cooley)
I have found that those keen on so called rehabilitation tend to be found amongst sections of society least likely to be victims of crime.

Virtue signalling is always best when someone else pays the price for it.
It's not virtue signalling so much as it's solipsism. Upper middle class people are generally kinder and more intelligent than the poor and many of them have sadly deluded themselves into the ridiculous belief that poor people are like them and would act like them if they had the same opportunities and social capital they have, this is not true.
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joe cooley
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(Original post by l'etranger)
It's not virtue signalling so much as it's solipsism. Upper middle class people are generally kinder and more intelligent than the poor and many of them have sadly deluded themselves into the ridiculous belief that poor people are like them and would act like them if they had the same opportunities and social capital they have, this is not true.
Which could be a reasonable point, if only rich people didn't commit crime too.

Nope, you need to go back to the drawing board with that one.

Many rich people are unkind and unintelligent.

How wealthy are you for example?
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l'etranger
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(Original post by joe cooley)
Which could be a reasonable point, if only rich people didn't commit crime too.

Nope, you need to go back to the drawing board with that one.

Many rich people are unkind and unintelligent.

How wealthy are you for example?
Poorer people are much more inclined towards criminality than the rich.
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TheCosmicWizard
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(Original post by demaistre)
As far as I'm aware no state in the world has a system where people who commit burglary, assault etc three times are executed.
Also even if it doesn't deter crime I believe from a moral standpoint certain people should be put to death, child killers, serial killers etc.
Might want to research a bit more before making comments like that one. I.E.
http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...y=Saudi+Arabia

Would you agree that child killers and serial killers are mentally ill?
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TheРeoplesPath
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I completely agree. Surprisingly (excepting the child rapists and terrorists) I have a much greater respect for Islamic culture now. Their harsh punishments and haram laws definitely have the potential to keep society clean and high functioning.
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Pikachū
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(Original post by TheCosmicWizard)
The death penalty does not work. Look at the countries that do have one. Has it stopped people committing crimes?

Locking people up does not work either look how full the prisons of the world are yet still people commit crime. Its very expensive both in resources / manpower /fiscally, for a country to keep people locked up 24 hours a day.

Privatisation of prisons I HEAR YOU SAY ? that's going remarkably well in the US of Ay is it not ? With more people per head of capita in prison than anywhere else on the planet and prison lobbyists arguing for tougher and tougher laws . is it ethical to make money from incarceration?

http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88...tive-deterrent
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...ers/Per-capita

What's the answer , I don't know , maybe medical experiments that would benefit mankind to some degree that are currently unable to be carried out due to ethical reasons ?

>painless death penalty is bad
>solitary confinement, whole life of suffering and mental torture is fine
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