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    (Original post by QE2)
    Not if the police had "reasonable suspicion" and he subsequently refused to provide ID. The fact that Adunbi has been mistaken for the criminal before shows that their suspicion was reasonable (there is obviously a physical similarity). The suspicion does not have to be correct, only reasonable.!
    Remind me what happened last time they arrested him. Oh yes, they got taken to court for wrongful arrest and lost.
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    (Original post by Merfie)
    Thirty years practicing law and you think it is a reasonable conclusion for anyone to kill a police officer?
    Whether I believe it to be right or not doesn't change the law and I deliberately gave the hardest case I could think of in post 145

    That incident, and the incident presented before us are COMPLETE worlds apart.
    You said "Never will it ever be reasonably necessary within Britain to use 'reasonable force' against any police officer," The similarity to the present case is irrelevant. I gave an example where what you were saying was untrue.

    You haven't commented on the rest of my argument, presumably the rest of it is sound?
    Your argument is sound (apart from equating reasonable suspicion to reasonable belief), but the factual basis is likely not to be. You said "If the officers state and can justify (which they no doubt will) that they had reasonable belief that the gentleman was wanted, no one can really dispute that".

    That is likely to be where the officers will have a very hard time. That is exactly what the Claimant's lawyers will question but it won't even get to court if the police officers can't convince the force solicitor.

    The belief has to be reasonable and I was told of something with no specific detail that wasn't in fact true on an occasion I can't remember by a person I have forgotten won't cut the mustard

    I will give you the old fashioned interrogatory (the procedure has changed but the substance has not)

    Of "he believed": please state all facts and matters giving rise to that belief providing copies of all documents giving rise to the belief and in the case of oral communications of any facts and matters giving rise to that belief details of the persons making and persons receiving such communications, the date, time and method of the communications, the circumstances of the communications, whether any other person, and if so whom, was present and whether any record of the communications was made and if so, providing a copy of that record together if the record is a oral recording, a transcript.
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    Is deploying a Taser when asking who someone is reasonable and restrained? Because to me that seems pretty aggressive.
    If you remember, the question I was responding to was about initial behaviour. You said the police were initially aggressive and unreasonable. However, the video clearly shows the police initially being calm an reasonable while Adunbi was aggressive and obstructive.

    "Initially" means "at the beginning", BTW.

    Also, the taser was deployed several minutes later, once Adunbi was resisting arrest.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    If you remember, the question I was responding to was about initial behaviour. You said the police were initially aggressive and unreasonable. However, the video clearly shows the police initially being calm an reasonable while Adunbi was aggressive and obstructive.

    "Initially" means "at the beginning", BTW.

    Also, the taser was deployed several minutes later, once Adunbi was resisting arrest.
    At the beginning they had a Taser deployed. That is not calm and reasonable, that is aggressive and threatening.

    The Taser was deployed before the filming had even begun, go back and watch it.
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    Why are you picking older posts of mine to reply rather than the most recent ones where I have replied you?.
    I am reading all the comments in order, and replying to them as such. Don't worry, I'll get to your later posts eventually. I do hope you're not repeating the same fallacious reasoning.

    Have you changed your position over the course of the thread? If not, why does it matter?
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    He never touched the police until they grabbed when he was entering he property. They were the first to get physical.
    I never claimed that he did.

    Do you constitute pushing someone off you as violent?
    It can be.
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    Must be why they dropped the charges, because of their stellar police work.
    The charges were almost certainly dropped (at least in part) because of all the (somewhat inaccurate and partisan) press coverage. After all, they weren't serious charges.
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    Arrested for not providing a name? Wonder how that would play out in court...
    Depends.
    If the police have reasonable suspicion of an offence, and a suspect refuses to cooperate, it is entirely within the law to arrest.
    Such a case could well lead to conviction for obstructing a police officer. Obviously, if the offender is black and a lot of fuss is made in the media, then a prosecution is less likely. But hey, that's Racist Britain for you.
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    Then the next day, the same man is arrested again for being suspected of being the same wanted man, they're mistaken, he's released and the cycle goes on.
    The man in question can avoid arrest simply by identifying himself.
    I really fail to see what part of this you find so difficult.
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    They shouldn't have forgotten the last time he took them to court. They obviously don't learn from their mistakes.
    Perhaps it wasn't these two officers. It was 9 years ago, and there are more than two people in S&APD.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Perhaps it wasn't these two officers. It was 9 years ago, and there are more than two people in S&APD.
    Records are a thing.
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    He has the legal right not to tell them his name, he exercised this right, not a crime.
    however, a constable had a reasonable suspicion that he was a wanted person , and under S 24 of pace and various other legislation has the power to request he prove his identity and an power of arrest if this request cannot be satisfied.

    He was aggressive as were the police, also not crimes.
    He walked away from the police to enter his property when he was not under a arrest, not a crime.
    The police grabbed him when he was not under arrest and he defended himself, once again, not a crime.
    you need to stop taking lessons in jurisprudence fro mthe freewibblers and /or US TV drama.


    He broke no laws therefore there was no law to enforce. He was well within the law and his rights. For all the police know he had broken no laws yet they still treated him like a criminal and with excessive force.
    S.24 PACE power of arrest, which he resisted - allowing reasonable force to be used , which depending on circumstances may include deadly force.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Well actually I have been practising law for 30 years this year
    Bit old for a student forum aren't you? I thought I was a bit of a veteran doing postgrad in my 20s!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Bit old for a student forum aren't you? I thought I was a bit of a veteran doing postgrad in my 20s!
    I am generally here by rights as a part-time mature student although not this year.
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    (Original post by joe cooley)
    SJW juvenile nonsense.

    Unless of course you can provide evidence to back up such a stupid claim?

    LOL,as if.
    PRSOM

    it;s not even SJW , it;s purely juvenile ,

    unconscious incompetence, illusory superirotiy and a immaturity mean that many children consider themselves experts on the law, and extrapolate what they have been told aobut bullying and child abuse to also involve interactiosn with the Police, despite S24 PACE, S163 ROad Traffic Act and innumberable other bits and pieces of legislation that give the police power, to stop individuals and verify their identity and account for their current actions and intentions , and may also evolve into a stop and search scenario from a 'stop and account' ... oddly enough cooperating with Stop and Account or S163 RTA takes about 5 -10 minutes of your day, where beign a muppet can take 12 hours out of your day and ned up with you half way across the county.
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    Never been to Bristol.
    Silly comment to make then really. Easton has one of the proportionally highest Afro Caribbean populations in the country. And quite a few are elderly rastaman. Bad luck!
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    S.24 PACE power of arrest, which he resisted - allowing reasonable force to be used , which depending on circumstances may include deadly force.
    So was "reasonable" force used?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    WTF? Are you deliberately trolling?
    About 2 mins before the taser, and a minute before the scuffling, the male officer said "So I have no choice then but to arrest you" (in response to Adunbi's refusal to identify himself in the context of offences being committed)

    Now get back under your bridge.
    at that point , the S.24 PACE arrest began and the fact it took several minutes to get physical indicates that the Officers were trying to use a sensible approach .
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    Do the police not keep records? You would think that the record would have a big red flag attached saying "Don't **** this up again"..
    Very possibly.
    But as Adunbi refused to identify himself to the police, they could not possibly know it was him. Rather, even if in possession of the knowledge of the previous incident, they would more reasonably assume that the man looking like Mr X who is being obstructive and attempting to flee is more likely to be the criminal than the law-abiding citizen. It would also be more reasonable to assume that The Real Mr Adunbi would want to avoid another misunderstanding and would therefore willingly identify himself as such. I mean, why wouldn't he?

    What possible reason could the previous recipient of compensation for a case of mistaken identity have for deliberately instigating another case of the same mistaken identity?

    I feel like I'm repeating myself, of because I have already answered all of these questions, but you are insistent on going back through without finding the answers first
    That's because all your answers are fundamentally flawed. And you fail to address the points I am making. You don't do a lot of debating, do you?
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    (Original post by Willy Pete)
    So was "reasonable" force used?
    yes , especially given that taser is so low down the use of force scale due to the very much smaller risk of serious or fatal injuries than the use of extending or rigid baton strikes .

    People underestimate the numbers and nature of force used to go hands on as well ... in Mental health and Prison settings restraint is done by teams of up to 6 individuals
 
 
 
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