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B1107 – Voluntary Prisoner Euthanasia Bill 2017 Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Ummm, nobody survives a proper life sentence, that's kinda what life means...
    Most people don't serve a full life sentence though. They get "life" sentences but then get released after 20 years.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Just execute them to begin with
    Although I don't agree with that statement;following that line of logic, this process would be far less time-consuming, and likely far less expensive as a result, when compared to "traditional" capital punishment, the difference being that this process would be entirely voluntary.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    B1107 – Voluntary Prisoner Euthanasia Bill 2017, ByronicHero (seconded by Quamquam123 MP)

    Voluntary Prisoner Euthanasia Bill

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

    1. Death

    (1) Any prisoner serving a sentence of at least 15 years is able to request euthenasia.
    (2) The request is granted except where there is compelling evidence of coercion or considerable mental impairment.
    (3) Decisions pertaining to 1.(2) are made by a panel.

    2. The Panel

    (1) A panel is convened within 2 months of the date of request.
    (2) The panel consists of a doctor, a senior member of prison staff, a psychologist and an advocate who is chosen by, or appointed for, the prisoner.
    (3) The panel considers pertinent information pertaining to the request. This includes, but is not limited to: the prisoner's mental health, their likelihood of being coerced and whether they have any reasonable expectation of being released in the near future.
    (4) A period of 2 months is allowed following the date of the panel hearing for professional tests and assessments to be completed.
    (5) 2 months after the first panel a second panel meeting is convened.
    (6) A conclusion is reached regarding the prisoner's request.
    (7) If granted, the execution must happen within 2 months of this date.

    2. Method

    (1) The sedative sodium thiopental is intravenously administered to induce a coma. Once it is certain that the patient is in a deep coma, pancuronium is administered to stop breathing and cause death.

    3. Right of withdrawal

    (1) The prisoner may withdraw from the process at any point.
    (2) A prisoner who withdraws is not eligible to apply again for consideration for a period of 10 years.

    4. Commencement, short title and extent

    (1) This may be cited as the Voluntary Prisoner Euthenasia Act 2017
    (2) This act shall extend to England; and
    (3) Shall come into force immediately following Royal Assent; and
    (4) Shall be provided to the Welsh Assembly Government for their consideration; and
    (5) Subject to changes made by the National Assembly for Wales; and
    (6) Subject to an affirmative vote shall come into force immediately following Royal Assent.


    Notes
    1) A person has supreme right to their own life. If they wish to end it, they should be allowed to. This bill aims to make that a reality. Somebody should not be forced to live in a cage for a long period of time if they would rather end their life.
    2) Religious taboos regarding suicide are irrelevant.
    3) The method is chosen as it is what a number of progressive countries use to assist suicide. If somebody has a different method please do say so.
    4) This is not the same as supporting the death penalty. If you think it is, you are beyond my help.
    5) There would be some cost involved, certainly. It wouldn't be substantial and would be partially offset by the money saved by not feeding them etc.
    In other words we will support the death penalty but do not have the balls to support the policy publically?
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    In other words we will support the death penalty but do not have the balls to support the policy publically?
    Please explain to me how allowing prisoners the chance to take their own lives peacefully and with dignity, should they wish to do so, is equivalent to executing someone forcefully against their will for a crime they could be rehabilitated from.
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    In other words we will support the death penalty but do not have the balls to support the policy publically?
    No we support people's right to end their own life
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    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    1) I think it is interesting that you call this the easy way out. The implication being that they should be forced to do it 'the hard way'. I'd like to ask you what you think the point of prison is? It seems you think it is rehabilitation, which is fine. Unless you think the purpose is punishment I don't think your argument here holds at all. Your language, too, is interesting. You won't 'tolerate the worst criminals...'. Would you tolerate the other criminals having the right to end their own life or is that a right you seek to deny only the 'worst criminals'?

    2) You say in a moment of weakness but this make it seem like you've not read the bill. I'm unconvinced the 6 months of persistent desire would count as 'a moment' even in the life of an Elf.

    3) That implication is silly. Longer sentences = less actual life to be led afterwards. Mill considered long prison sentences like being confined to a living tomb. I tend to agree. If you'd spent any time in a cell you might agree too. I ask again, why do you seek to rob people of their fundamental right to end their own life? Why do you wish to force them to persist, even if professionals declare they are fit to make the decision? Why can a person not decide they do not wish to live a life that makes them brutally unhappy? I think the idea that people should be forced against all reason to live in a cage for years, and not allowed to opt out, inherently cruel.

    4) I agree with what I think your argument is at the end - that the prison system needs to be such that people are supported, and not made to feel helpless. Where they might learn skills and receive support to modify their behaviours. I agree. I also think it is completely irrelevant to the point here.

    I fear we are simply too far apart on this issue to meet anywhere near the middle.
    Rehabilitation is 'the hard way' - and I'm sure those who've gone through it would agree. Atonement is difficult.

    And 6 months is a mere moment in a sentence of 15+ years. I fear that with this option available the justice system will become less inclined to see prison as a place where people can reforge themselves and lead productive lives afterwards. This erodes that commitment, it raises a question that must not be raised - "why should I bother living?" - so it is a wholly relevant point.

    Now tell me, why 15 years? Why not any prisoner? - seeing as you're so set on discussing how it's people's 'own' lives.

    And no, I very much doubt we'll be able to meet in the middle because, unlike with the incest decriminilisation bill, I cannot imagine a version of this that I would vote for.
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    In other words we will support the death penalty but do not have the balls to support the policy publically?
    No. You're missing the fact that this is completely voluntary. As Joe says above, this is accompanied by the belief that an individual should have the capacity to end their own life.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Rehabilitation is 'the hard way' - and I'm sure those who've gone through it would agree. Atonement is difficult.

    And 6 months is a mere moment in a sentence of 15+ years. I fear that with this option available the justice system will become less inclined to see prison as a place where people can reforge themselves and lead productive lives afterwards. This erodes that commitment so it is a wholly relevant point.

    Now tell me, why 15 years? Why not any prisoner? - seeing as you're so set on discussing how it's people's 'own' lives.

    And no, I very much doubt we'll be able to meet in the middle because, unlike with the incest decriminilisation bill, I cannot imagine a version of this that I would vote for.
    I see, I'd agree with you RE atonement. But it doesn't come close to providing sufficient currency to disallow someone from ending their own life. I suppose we view this fundamentally differently.

    I think you know that your choice of phrase was poor. I see no reason to argue that further if you wish to maintain that it wasn't.

    I disagree that this would have a transformative effect on the assumed purpose of the prison system and even if it did would not view it as a strong argument to disallow this. I also don't see how this erodes that commitment. The commitment is only relevant if the prisoner wants to live a productive life afterwards. At the point at which they wish to commit suicide - they do not.

    I would absolutely rather it be every prisoner. I chose these stipulations because I estimated that it would be more palatable to people in the middle of the pack to have a set of conditions attached such as those. It's political expediency designed to loosen the tap, so to speak. I don't believe people would vote for the full measure, but I do believe people would vote for this significantly restricted measure. Obviously you are not one of those people

    That's fair enough. Saves us time walking in ideological circles
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    In other words we will support the death penalty but do not have the balls to support the policy publically?
    This makes no sense.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Please explain to me how allowing prisoners the chance to take their own lives peacefully and with dignity, should they wish to do so, is equivalent to executing someone forcefully against their will for a crime they could be rehabilitated from.
    Murderers (I include manslaughter)are self evidently evil along with terrorists and arsonists they actually deserve the death penalty its a strain on our public resources which the taxpayer funds to keep them inside and then rehabilitate them again and again as there are some clinical criminals. It has to be life inside or the death penalty for murderers, terrorists.etc I think it has to be the former in those circumstances the families victims will not get full justice. Life for life.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    No we support people's right to end their own life
    See post above
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    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    This makes no sense.
    You support giving people the choice to end their life but the state should kill murderers to achieve full justice for the victims, A life for a life simple as that.
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    Murderers (I include manslaughter)are self evidently evil along with terrorists and arsonists they actually deserve the death penalty its a strain on our public resources which the taxpayer funds to keep them inside and then rehabilitate them again and again as there are some clinical criminals. It has to be life inside or the death penalty for murderers, terrorists.etc I think it has to be the former in those circumstances the families victims will not get full justice. Life for life.
    You totally dodged my question, I don't give a **** why you think people should be executed. I asked why you think allowing people to volunteer for euthanasia willingly is the same as a forced execution, as did Joe.
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    Murderers (I include manslaughter)are self evidently evil along with terrorists and arsonists they actually deserve the death penalty its a strain on our public resources which the taxpayer funds to keep them inside and then rehabilitate them again and again as there are some clinical criminals. It has to be life inside or the death penalty for murderers, terrorists.etc I think it has to be the former in those circumstances the families victims will not get full justice. Life for life.
    The hopefully soon to be accepted libertarian party that I am part of on here has a bill that would require a referendum on whether capital punishment would be reinstated.

    This is just for people who have been given a long sentence and don't want to live anymore so it is a different question to capital punishment.
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    You support giving people the choice to end their life but the state should kill murderers to achieve full justice for the victims, A life for a life simple as that.
    This is an entirely different point to the first one you made. I have no issue with you supporting the death penalty, it is your right to do so even if I disagree. If you believe that such measures are right you can vote yes in the referendum which may happen in the coming months if one of our bills passes. I'd urge you not to - but your conscience is your own.

    My issue was with the comparison you made which was logically unsound.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    You totally dodged my question, I don't give a **** why you think people should be executed. I asked why you think allowing people to volunteer for euthanasia willingly is the same as a forced execution, as did Joe.
    Wishy Washy political correctness . Hinting at what you want but not coming out in full support of it
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    Wishy Washy political correctness . Hinting at what you want but not coming out in full support of it
    Not at all, if you can't distinguish the difference between support for forced execution by the state, and voluntary assisted suicide then I fear you may have a logical impairment of some kind.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Not at all, if you can't distinguish the difference between support for forced execution by the state, and voluntary assisted suicide then I fear you may have a logical impairment of some kind.
    Hinting at it then denying it made me come to the assumption long term convicts you wanted to sign up to Euthinasia, if you going to do that you may aswell have a review and bring back the death penalty
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    If euthanasia is illegal for law abiding citizens, it certainly shouldn't be legal for criminals committing serious crimes like rape and murder (which are likely if they've been sentenced to a minimum of 15yrs ) and by enforcing that, you're punishing the innocent and rewarding the guilty.

    So it's a no from me. Let them rot
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    (Original post by BritNProud)
    You support giving people the choice to end their life but the state should kill murderers to achieve full justice for the victims, A life for a life simple as that.
    Revenge = Justice? What does revenge achieve apart from slightly softening the blow? In the end, the victim is still dead, and you're just creating another victim.

    (Original post by BritNProud)
    Wishy Washy political correctness . Hinting at what you want but not coming out in full support of it
    Accusation of political correctness in lieu of an actual rebuttal?
 
 
 
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