Stop saying trump is illegitimate becuase he lost the popular vote Watch

3121
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Just stop! You need to read and understand what federalism is and realise it's not about individual representation. He won, now it's time to move forward. Your moaning is only helping him win a second term.
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tamil fever
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Moura
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Sooo... if people disagree with something about the leadership of their country (or aspects of the system that put him/her there) they should shut up and put up?

Sounds... a bit like a dictatorship???

The power to protest and disagree with a leader is what keeps countries free. Fair enough disagree with what they are saying, but do not tell them to "stop moaning".

I don't even need to post pictures of people protesting Obama's right to be president.
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Asolare
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It doesn't matter, the fact that he lost the popular vote and yet gets elected shows a serious flaw in the Electoral College that needs to be fixed. In no event should the loser of a vote in terms of numbers, be the one that wins. It's a massive middle finger up to everyone by rejecting the majority of vote(r)s (who should under normal circumstances win).

I wouldn't say 'illegitimate' though, just a flawed system which, whilst was set up to try and make voting more fair, has led to this situation 4 times now.
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knightchildish
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trump is illegitimate because he lost the popular vote
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3121
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(Original post by Moura)
Sooo... if people disagree with something about the leadership of their country (or aspects of the system that put him/her there) they should shut up and put up?

Sounds... a bit like a dictatorship???

The power to protest and disagree with a leader is what keeps countries free. Fair enough disagree with what they are saying, but do not tell them to "stop moaning".

I don't even need to post pictures of people protesting Obama's right to be president.
People should protest policy, NONE of trumps policy discrimates gays, trans, women, or foreigners living legally in the USA. If anything his policy seeks to make these American people matter. You look at all these signs and they don't relate to any of his policies, sure he's not the nicest guy and hasn't got the cleanest past but that isn't reflected in his policy or attitude as president which is what matters. It's substance over style not style over substance. So it's a dictatorship if they weren't allowed to protest policies but protesting historic personal mistakes Is a waste of time. And if that's the issue, say it's the issue don't bring in the system, its democratic towards the states and designed that way for a reason.

I'm saying to stop moaning about the system, they're penalising the smaller states which is CRUCIAL if they want success in 2020. They need to start listening and co-operating with these people/states.
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(Original post by knightchildish)


trump is illegitimate because he lost the popular vote

I bet you also think Scotland shouldn't leave the EU becuase it voted to remain… hypocrisy right there
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Palmyra
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(Original post by Inexorably)
It doesn't matter, the fact that he lost the popular vote and yet gets elected shows a serious flaw in the Electoral College that needs to be fixed. In no event should the loser of a vote in terms of numbers, be the one that wins. It's a massive middle finger up to everyone by saying their vote is not as equal as others.
Do you feel the same way about the FPTP system used in our own general elections and which produced analogous results on three distinct occasions in the 20th century?
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Count Bezukhov
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(Original post by knightchildish)


trump is illegitimate because he lost the popular vote

He isn't illegitimate because that's how the American system works. However, I can understand why people are angry, and they do have a right to protest. Perhaps they should focus on overhauling the system though, if a majority of Americans disagree with it (not sure whether or not this is the case though).
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GoddessCalamity
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(Original post by knightchildish)


trump is illegitimate because he lost the popular vote

Damn, you beat me to it
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Pikachū
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(Original post by Inexorably)
It doesn't matter, the fact that he lost the popular vote and yet gets elected shows a serious flaw in the Electoral College that needs to be fixed. In no event should the loser of a vote in terms of numbers, be the one that wins. It's a massive middle finger up to everyone by saying their vote is not as equal as others.

I wouldn't say 'illegitimate' though, just a flawed system which, whilst was set up to try and make voting more fair, has led to this situation 4 times now.
Did you think our own system was flawed when UKIP got 13% of the votes and only got one seat?
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Asolare
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(Original post by Palmyra)
Do you feel the same way about the FPTP system used in our own general elections and which produced analogous results on three distinct occasions in the 20th century?
Sorry I actually came back to edit my comment as I realised I worded something so absurdly wrong, I meant it's a massive middle finger to the majority of voters (who should have won). As there's a huge diff. between that and 'an equal vote'

I do not like the FPTP system but I do not have high hopes for it to ever be changed.
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Palmyra
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(Original post by Pikachū)
Did you our own system was flawed when UKIP got 13% of the votes and only got one seat?
Did your own English was flawed
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Pikachū
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(Original post by Palmyra)
Did your own English was flawed
shei

Did you think*
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(Original post by Inexorably)
It doesn't matter, the fact that he lost the popular vote and yet gets elected shows a serious flaw in the Electoral College that needs to be fixed. In no event should the loser of a vote in terms of numbers, be the one that wins. It's a massive middle finger up to everyone by saying their vote is not as equal as others.

I wouldn't say 'illegitimate' though, just a flawed system which, whilst was set up to try and make voting more fair, has led to this situation 4 times now.
Does it? So you think Hilary should be president and lead the federal government (the group aimed to represent states internationally) without the support of a majority of states? I support ideas like introducing proportional electors like Maine has or maybe some process to deal with what happens when a candidate wins but doesn't get the pop. Vote, but not a direct election. Imagine how Scotland feels after the direct election of brexit and being out voted by England.. that's how the small states would feel after EVERY pres. election. I think it's fair to say that their votes aren't equal, the idea of the electoral college is that it runs 50 individual elections then collects them which emphasis the importance of state equality at federal level and individual equality at state level. As much as I hate Bush, I wouldn't say His 2000 election success was becuase of the EC's failure, it was the Supreme Court that allowed him to win.
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(Original post by JRKinder)
He isn't illegitimate because that's how the American system works. However, I can understand why people are angry, and they do have a right to protest. Perhaps they should focus on overhauling the system though, if a majority of Americans disagree with it (not sure whether or not this is the case though).
Would it pass as a constitutional amendment? definitely not. Many people are just bitter becuase it's trump, let's be honest if Obama won without the popular vote it'd be a different story
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Asolare
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(Original post by zayn008)
Does it? So you think Hilary should be president and lead the federal government (the group aimed to represent states internationally) without the support of a majority of states? I support ideas like introducing proportional electors like Maine has or maybe some process to deal with what happens when a candidate wins but doesn't get the pop. Vote, but not a direct election. Imagine how Scotland feels after the direct election of brexit and being out voted by England.. that's how the small states would feel after EVERY pres. election. I think it's fair to say that their votes aren't equal, the idea of the electoral college is that it runs 50 individual elections then collects them which emphasis the importance of state equality at federal level and individual equality at state level. As much as I hate Bush, I wouldn't say His 2000 election success was becuase of the EC's failure, it was the Supreme Court that allowed him to win.
I'm not claiming Hilary should be president as Trump won by the rules he and Hilary were playing by, he won fair and square under that system and no amount of protesting from anyone will do anything about that. The 'states' themselves should not be the important things here (I understand why they are), but the individual voters. I do accept the merits of the EC but it is very "awkward" to have any system whereby the candidate who has an actual majority of individual voters pick him, does not win.
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SonoLuma
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The U.S has a "first past the post" voting system.

I cannot believe that people dont understand this.... still...

Trump was first past the post, and so he won.
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(Original post by Inexorably)
I'm not claiming Hilary should be president as Trump won by the rules he and Hilary were playing by, he won fair and square under that system and no amount of protesting from anyone will do anything about that. The 'states' themselves should not be the important things here (I understand why they are), but the individual voters. I do accept the merits of the EC but it is very "awkward" to have any system whereby the candidate who has an actual majority of individual voters pick him, does not win.
California's margin of victory was 4 million which is how and why trump lost the popular vote, so you talk about voting equality yet support California over turning the election and having a bigger say? The EC limits its influence so other states get their fair share, I understand you appreciate that but you can't always have both, I think with deeper analysis this result shows just how divided America is, hence its unusual outcome. Democracy means different things to different people, you might be under the illusion that direct democracy is the best but look at Scotland in the EU referendum, imagine the control UKIP would have, if it were direct in America you wouldn't even have a federal government, you'd have independent states.
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bj27
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(Original post by Inexorably)
It doesn't matter, the fact that he lost the popular vote and yet gets elected shows a serious flaw in the Electoral College that needs to be fixed. In no event should the loser of a vote in terms of numbers, be the one that wins. It's a massive middle finger up to everyone by rejecting the majority of vote(r)s (who should under normal circumstances win).

I wouldn't say 'illegitimate' though, just a flawed system which, whilst was set up to try and make voting more fair, has led to this situation 4 times now.
Yeah but not like the same situation can't happen in the UK as well due to the system we use.

(Original post by Palmyra)
Do you feel the same way about the FPTP system used in our own general elections and which produced analogous results on three distinct occasions in the 20th century?
Yeah this.
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