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Stop saying trump is illegitimate becuase he lost the popular vote Watch

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    (Original post by Palmyra)
    relevance? the argument was being made in support of the US system, not the UK system (which I also oppose).
    thought you were implying we have one person = one vote with your london comment- nvm
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    (Original post by Pikachū)
    thought you were implying we have one person = one vote with your london comment- nvm
    our voting system is almost as retarded as America's voting system tbh
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    (Original post by Palmyra)
    our voting system is almost as retarded as America's voting system tbh
    I don't think one person = one vote is fair but I do agree the power of the electoral college needs to be reduced

    each state has a vastly different culture and priorities, wouldn't be fair to let the big states decide every president
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    (Original post by Palmyra)
    This is a much better argument, stop pretending the U.S. is a democracy and acknowledge that it is a federal republic. However, I don't think the argument underlying this arrangement would have much force today (unless you want to effectively equate the U.S. to Syria or Lebanon which reaches a partially undemocratic balance between representation and democracy - in the latter's case representation of ethnic/religious minorities, and in the former's case representation of those outside of California).
    I mean it's democratic to an extent, you can define representation in different way. Do you represent an individual, a group, a collection of groups? The presidential elections may not be the most representative of individuals but it the most representative of the states (which is what matters), now in congressional elections and state elections, individual representation is much more significant hence turnout and participation tends to be higher.
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    (Original post by Pikachū)
    I don't think one person = one vote is fair but I do agree the power of the electoral college needs to be reduced

    each state has a vastly different culture and priorities, wouldn't be fair to let the big states decide every president
    True and I think this can be done by taking the PR model used by Maine.
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    *groans* This argument again!

    The fact is, by all the laws in the USA, Trump is rightfully president. No, I'm nor "for" Trump, and no, I didn't want him to get in but the vote cast is the vote cast! If Hillary had got in, and the Trump supporters had all complained and said they should have won, etc. etc., we'd call them bad sports. Ditto with brexit. I'm for Remain, but brexit has been voted by a people who the media never listens to, and who have finally voiced themselves in votes, where one person is equal to another. I would be a sad loser if I kept going around telling everybody they shouldn't have won, they made the wrong decision etc. The fact is, the decision has been made, and we need to respect it. So why does everyone complain, and keep hoping things will go the other way, or something, just because their choice of president wasn't voted in?

    Lesson to learn: the media doesn't give everyone's opinions.
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    (Original post by ImASnek)
    Sanity reigns.

    As I just said in my post, both sides knew the rules and how to play the electoral college system to their gain. Hillary supporters were happy that if Hillary won Florida irrespective of how trump did in other states pretty much couldnt win due to the number of votes Florida brings - and they didnt see a problem with it then..?

    You cant go retroactively changing the rules of the game once its been played.
    I like you…
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    Imagine how Scotland feels after the direct election of brexit and being out voted by England.. that's how the small states would feel after EVERY pres. election.
    Scotland is a constituent country of the UK. The US states are, for the most part, just administrative divisions. Scotland existed as an independent country for nearly 900 years before it unified with England. The only remotely comparable US state is Hawaii.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    Just stop! You need to read and understand what federalism is and realise it's not about individual representation. He won, now it's time to move forward. Your moaning is only helping him win a second term.
    Why does it matter to you?

    What will youi do to people who dont stop?

    Do you always order people about?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Scotland is a constituent country of the UK. The US states are, for the most part, just administrative divisions. Scotland existed as an independent country for nearly 900 years before it unified with England. The only remotely comparable US state is Hawaii.
    Fair enough I agree with the historic and identity aspect but that doesn't change the fact that the states can have culture just as differentiated as England and Scotland, look at how diverse American states are… from your cowboy, religious, traditionalist states like Texas to big city, liberal, modern states like California. You have different race populations, different religious populations and different industries which often reflects the state.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Why does it matter to you?

    What will youi do to people who dont stop?

    Do you always order people about?
    Becuase it's an uneducated belief. I won't do anything, I just wish people look at the other side of the tail and do what's best to fix their country not bringing it into deeper divisions. And I do my fair part, not as much as I'd like to though.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    Becuase it's an uneducated belief. I won't do anything, I just wish people look at the other side of the tail and do what's best to fix their country not bringing it into deeper divisions. And I do my fair part, not as much as I'd like to though.
    Are you American? Isnt that the point the rhetoric in the campaign was one of division? It seems like a very divided country, just like the UK.
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    (Original post by zayn008)
    Fair enough I agree with the historic and identity aspect but that doesn't change the fact that the states can have culture just as differentiated as England and Scotland, look at how diverse American states are… from your cowboy, religious, traditionalist states like Texas to big city, liberal, modern states like California. You have different race populations, different religious populations and different industries which often reflects the state.
    Not really, the US isn't that culturally diverse. The obvious markers like language and religion are far less fractionalised than in many other countries. The vast majority (~43) of the US states have a Protestant Christian plurality or majority. A few in the Northeast have a Catholic plurality instead, but the closest any US state comes to having a radically different religious makeup to the others is Mormon-dominated Utah. Linguistically, English is utterly dominant, being an official language in every state, while the number of states to have any other official language can be counted on one hand.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Not really, the US isn't that culturally diverse. The obvious markers like language and religion are far less fractionalised than in many other countries. The vast majority (~43) of the US states have a Protestant Christian plurality or majority. A few in the Northeast have a Catholic plurality instead, but the closest any US state comes to having a radically different religious makeup to the others is Mormon-dominated Utah. Linguistically, English is utterly dominant, being an official language in every state, while the number of states to have any other official language can be counted on one hand.
    In one table it's much higher than the UK, in the other it's only one below so it's not the best evidence to your Scotland comparison... things like genetics, heritage, history (e.g 13 colonies, New England states), level of income, number of immigrants, types of industries, health, investment... they all build diversity. So my point about Scotland's place in the EU ref compared to how the US would be under a direct election still stands. You clearly haven't study American culture, it doesn't take that long but it's quite a politically and culturally diverse nation in its own respect (small differences but very different when you compare the 2 extremes)
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    (Original post by Inexorably)
    It doesn't matter, the fact that he lost the popular vote and yet gets elected shows a serious flaw in the Electoral College that needs to be fixed. In no event should the loser of a vote in terms of numbers, be the one that wins. It's a massive middle finger up to everyone by rejecting the majority of vote(r)s (who should under normal circumstances win).

    I wouldn't say 'illegitimate' though, just a flawed system which, whilst was set up to try and make voting more fair, has led to this situation 4 times now.
    (Original post by knightchildish)


    trump is illegitimate because he lost the popular vote

    The candidates weren't campaigning for the popular vote. If they were, they would have used different campaign strategies and the result probably wouldn't have turned out the way it did. So the disparity people are pointing to may not have actually occured under a popular vote scenario.

    Also, I highly doubt the anti-Trump camp would be complaining about the electoral college if the situation were reversed!

    Anyhow, one of the reasons the electoral college exists is to prevent differences in state voter turnout from affecting their representation in the union. Technically the individual states are voting, not the US population as a single pool. The US is a federal republic, remember.
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    Trump IS President, you need to get over that fact........... and yourself.

    Or do you?

    Mainstream politicians, their media lapdogs, privileged "celebrities" and the mindless drones that lap up the ******** are doing themselves no favours.

    While SJW types may get a thrill up their pant leg when they see some unwashed, unemployable piece of human excrement smashing a Starbucks window, everyday Americans not so much.

    Civil rights hero Lewis claiming Trumps inauguration would be the first he would miss since he entered Congress, the whining left may appreciate a lie like that, everyday Americans not so much.

    So, all in all i would say the left reacting to Trums victory like a spoilt 8 year old who cant have more ice cream is working in Trumps favour.

    Well done, keep it up kids.
 
 
 
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