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    (Original post by PandaSal)
    From my recent interview, they required direct reports. EO is the junior management position that doesn't require direct reports whereas HEO/SEO appear to require them, unless my interview was an anomaly in the direct reports requirement, they asked me questions relating to management of staff to ensure targets are met or what to do with a struggling junior for example, which I found strange as it didn't relate directly to the role (although I would've had a team under me so I guess it did).

    As I said from the start, as a graduate not applying through Fast Stream, you should be applying for EO unless you've had management experience (direct reports/managed teams with projects etc) in which case HEO although I'd only advise it if you actually have managed teams with project delivery and deadlines.
    I've managed project teams (I.e. Dotted line or horizontal/diagnoal management) but not had direct reports before.
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    (Original post by Ybsy75)
    I've managed project teams (I.e. Dotted line or horizontal/diagnoal management) but not had direct reports before.
    That's EO grade. Apply for HEO if you think you've meet the job requirements and experience but you're really looking at EO.
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    (Original post by PandaSal)
    From my recent interview, they required direct reports. EO is the junior management position that doesn't require direct reports whereas HEO/SEO appear to require them, unless my interview was an anomaly in the direct reports requirement, they asked me questions relating to management of staff to ensure targets are met or what to do with a struggling junior for example, which I found strange as it didn't relate directly to the role (although I would've had a team under me so I guess it did).

    As I said from the start, as a graduate not applying through Fast Stream, you should be applying for EO unless you've had management experience (direct reports/managed teams with projects etc) in which case HEO although I'd only advise it if you actually have managed teams with project delivery and deadlines.
    Hi PandaSal. I'm curious as to which department you were applying for. I've been a civil servant since graduation last year and the department I work for and those I have been successful in applying for jobs with (the internationally facing ones) DO NOT require any management experience until you reach SEO level. That is the main distinction between HEO and SEO. This is with the exception of applying for specialist roles in certain areas. Perhaps your interview was an anomaly.

    For those looking to join the CS as a direct entrant:

    If you have some strong work experience and/or a masters degree, it is completely reasonable as a graduate to apply for HEO roles. This is the exact entry level that you would face as a Fast Streamer. Progression can even be faster as a direct entrant in certain departments. However, if you have little work experience in a political/administrative service role, I would suggest you apply for EO roles in most departments. AO roles will not be stretching for most graduates, they are usually administrative in nature (hence the name) and will not make use of your skills.
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    (Original post by DD12790)
    Hi PandaSal. I'm curious as to which department you were applying for. I've been a civil servant since graduation last year and the department I work for and those I have been successful in applying for jobs with (the internationally facing ones) DO NOT require any management experience until you reach SEO level. That is the main distinction between HEO and SEO. This is with the exception of applying for specialist roles in certain areas. Perhaps your interview was an anomaly.

    For those looking to join the CS as a direct entrant:

    If you have some strong work experience and/or a masters degree, it is completely reasonable as a graduate to apply for HEO roles. This is the exact entry level that you would face as a Fast Streamer. Progression can even be faster as a direct entrant in certain departments. However, if you have little work experience in a political/administrative service role, I would suggest you apply for EO roles in most departments. AO roles will not be stretching for most graduates, they are usually administrative in nature (hence the name) and will not make use of your skills.
    A lot of departments seem to have combined HEO and SEO so maybe that's why? It seems to be the larger departments (DWP, HO) etc that have kept them separate.
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    (Original post by Ybsy75)
    A lot of departments seem to have combined HEO and SEO so maybe that's why? It seems to be the larger departments (DWP, HO) etc that have kept them separate.
    I wouldn't know, I'm guessing if you're in a small department with limited staff in each sector you might be expected to have some line management experience. But in my experience across Whitehall certainly, HEOs are by no means expected to have any line management experience at all. This is reflected in the civil service competencies that you would be expected to fulfill in applying for jobs.

    I wouldn't want to discourage anybody from applying for roles that they are perfectly capable of fulfilling, simply because they have been told they don't have enough experience by one person, especially given how difficult progression can be to unlock in certain departments. Especially as a graduate, hiring managers are aware of capability and the need to be stretched in a role, and as such I would say that EO/HEO is definitely a reasonable starting point if you have some work experience/a strong interest in the field.
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    (Original post by DD12790)
    Hi PandaSal. I'm curious as to which department you were applying for. I've been a civil servant since graduation last year and the department I work for and those I have been successful in applying for jobs with (the internationally facing ones) DO NOT require any management experience until you reach SEO level. That is the main distinction between HEO and SEO. This is with the exception of applying for specialist roles in certain areas. Perhaps your interview was an anomaly.
    I don't want to give too much away however each of the HEO posts I applied for, had requirements of staff handling, these weren't your standard posts however so it may be that I'm basing my experience of a totally unique set of circumstances, even in my interview for one they asked about my experience with direct reports and based competencies on such.

    I have another one coming up next week, I'll let you guys know if it's the same again or not and hopefully that'll make it clearer although last year I remember it being similar to the one I recently did as well so I'm unsure.
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    (Original post by PandaSal)
    I don't want to give too much away however each of the HEO posts I applied for, had requirements of staff handling, these weren't your standard posts however so it may be that I'm basing my experience of a totally unique set of circumstances, even in my interview for one they asked about my experience with direct reports and based competencies on such.

    I have another one coming up next week, I'll let you guys know if it's the same again or not and hopefully that'll make it clearer although last year I remember it being similar to the one I recently did as well so I'm unsure.
    That is quite bizarre! I've interviewed for HEO posts across a range of departments - and was successful - and that was the specific differentiation between HEO/SEO. I would still say that a graduate should definitely not rule themselves out for *most* HEO opportunities, unless they have specific requirements they can't meet.

    Good luck with your interviews.
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    For many of the EO roles descriptions the website states:

    "The initial sift may be conducted using a lead competency. This will be the competency which is listed first in the job advert.
    Applicants will be expected to demonstrate the essential role requirements within the application competency responses."

    What is the initial sift? Are they referring to the Civil Service Initial Sift Test?
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    (Original post by queenofswords)
    For many of the EO roles descriptions the website states:

    "The initial sift may be conducted using a lead competency. This will be the competency which is listed first in the job advert.
    Applicants will be expected to demonstrate the essential role requirements within the application competency responses."

    What is the initial sift? Are they referring to the Civil Service Initial Sift Test?
    They're referring to the initial competency that you wrote down during the application, if you haven't met the minimum score for CSIST/CSJT/Verbal/Numerical, you get told straight away but if you have been successful at that stage, they look at your competency and mark it against the scheme before going any further.

    It states quite clearly on every application and in your above quote.
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    (Original post by PandaSal)
    They're referring to the initial competency that you wrote down during the application, if you haven't met the minimum score for CSIST/CSJT/Verbal/Numerical, you get told straight away but if you have been successful at that stage, they look at your competency and mark it against the scheme before going any further.

    It states quite clearly on every application and in your above quote.
    Ok, thank you. I have been successful at the initial tests. So I am assuming they will now look at the lead competency.
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    Is it normal to find that many EO roles seem to have a lower starting salary than previous placements I've held?
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    Sorry to jump on this thread but it seems like the most relevant to me without starting another one.

    I've just done a sift test for an EO position and got an immediate feedback score of 46%. That's apparently a pass but am I right to assume it's nowhere near good enough to get me through to the next stage? If so, what score is?

    Its says I've passed the minimum requirement and am still being considered, but I assume in a competitive field that score leaves me way behind.

    This sift stuff is all a bit new to me, I know I'd do a great job for them, so am intrigued to know how I could improve on the test. So many of the answers seemed very ambiguous, as if there was no right answer. Any advice much appreciated.
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    (Original post by marmalade4)
    Sorry to jump on this thread but it seems like the most relevant to me without starting another one.

    I've just done a sift test for an EO position and got an immediate feedback score of 46%. That's apparently a pass but am I right to assume it's nowhere near good enough to get me through to the next stage? If so, what score is?

    Its says I've passed the minimum requirement and am still being considered, but I assume in a competitive field that score leaves me way behind.

    This sift stuff is all a bit new to me, I know I'd do a great job for them, so am intrigued to know how I could improve on the test. So many of the answers seemed very ambiguous, as if there was no right answer. Any advice much appreciated.
    I can't remember exact details as it's a while since I've done an application, but I think the sift is there to know that you are fundamentally competent. If it's a pass, my guessing is that you will get to the application stage. Also, practice the tests, and know that some/many roles don't ask you to do a sift. Good luck!
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    (Original post by DD12790)
    I can't remember exact details as it's a while since I've done an application, but I think the sift is there to know that you are fundamentally competent. If it's a pass, my guessing is that you will get to the application stage. Also, practice the tests, and know that some/many roles don't ask you to do a sift. Good luck!
    Thanks for getting back to me, that gives me some hope. Fingers crossed.
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    Thank you everyone for your answers. Just as a secondary question, I want to eventually work in a projects or technical role on a major project in a major government department like DfT or Home Office. Will projects/technical experience in any government department help me get there? I already have previous experience of large projects in the transport sector through placements.
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    The HSE has a few graduate roles every year for Inspectors. The starting point is SEO, but after two years, once you have successfully completed the training programme you will become a HEO.
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    (Original post by Saoirseach1981)
    Hi Guys, I applied for a HEO position and had an interview two weeks ago, which went OK (I think). They said they would let us know if successful (or not!) within 2-3 weeks. The wait is excruciating, as I would like to know whether or not I need to invest more time into looking for other positions, completing applications, writing cover letters etc., which is a huge (but necessary) distraction from my PhD thesis.... any news, advice or information you might have would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!
    You can't afford to not be looking for other jobs in this climate unless you're already in a position and are applying speculatively. On the employers end, it always seems to me like they want you to justify why you absolutely want that position and why you're so passionate about their business or company.

    In reality, I think most people are applying for a number of different things at once because competition is so high. I think it's probably unreasonable to expect someone to put all their eggs in one basket. Most people don't really have the luxury of only applying for jobs that they're passionate about, and that's something it took me too long to learn after graduating.

    As much as you might be keen to have a career in the Civil Service, it might be one of a dozen applications that someone else has put in after deciding that they're tired of their corporate job so they're your competition too.


    (Original post by Sir Humphrey)
    It took me about 8 years.

    The only people I know who joined at HEO will have had extensive prior professional experience. If I were recruiting externally for an HEO, then its unlikely that I would take a recent grad without prior work experience at that level - for an HEO I'm looking for a self tasking person with a reasonable understanding of how the CS works, an ability to lead teams, do Ministerial correspondence and Parliamentary Business and manage a lot of other issues. I'd be looking for evidence of your ability to do this in your application, and its unlikely that someone with no professional experience would be able to demonstrate this to a strong level, particularly when compared to others.
    Can I ask how the sifting scores work, just out of curiosity? I have a few interviews lines up, two EO positions and one AO, and I've scored 4s and 5s on the sift. Each interview has four competencies that they're looking for and I've read that the Civil Service scores out of 9, but there's some discussion on forums of them scoring out of 5. I also did better on the AO test than I did on one of the EOs, despite using the exact same example.

    Does the online sift count towards the interview score? For my last interview I was told that the interviewers would not be assessing me based on my application or online tests but it wasn't clear whether those results would be available to them after the interview was finished, for example if there were two candidates with identical scores and they needed a tie breaker.
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    (Original post by wrennie J)
    The HSE has a few graduate roles every year for Inspectors. The starting point is SEO, but after two years, once you have successfully completed the training programme you will become a HEO.
    You are mistaken my friend, as SEO is a higher up grade than HEO. You would start as an EO, then progress to an HEO. Once you are an HEO, then you could progress to SEO.

    If you started as an SEO, then they made you an HEO after completing the training programme, then I guess you could say you failed.
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    (Original post by PandaSal)
    I don't want to give too much away however each of the HEO posts I applied for, had requirements of staff handling, these weren't your standard posts however so it may be that I'm basing my experience of a totally unique set of circumstances, even in my interview for one they asked about my experience with direct reports and based competencies on such.

    I have another one coming up next week, I'll let you guys know if it's the same again or not and hopefully that'll make it clearer although last year I remember it being similar to the one I recently did as well so I'm unsure.
    I'm an SEO and have never line managed anybody. Technical and policy jobs will be different
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    If you're recruited in the Civil Service on a "2 year contract (with a possibility of permanency)" at an EO level, is it possible to get promoted to HEO level before the end of the 2 years? Or must you wait till you complete the 2 years at EO level and then take further steps to try to get to the HEO level? Thank you !!
 
 
 
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