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Everyone in society hates each other Watch

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    Rich and poor

    Remainers and leavers

    Skinny and fat

    Young and old

    Brits and Scottish Independents

    Black and white

    Muslims and non Muslims

    Men and women (feminism)

    Immigrants and non immigrants
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    I don't feel that hate is a bad thing if it is directed towards an evil....

    Hate is just an intense feeling of dislike towards something. Its a natural feeling and if it is justified it can serve a constructive purpose.

    For example, I hate racism. I hate sexism. My feeling of hate towards these things drives me to act against ideologies that perpetuate them e.g. nazism, feminism.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    I don't feel that hate is a bad thing if it is directed towards an evil....

    Hate is just an intense feeling of dislike towards something. Its a natural feeling and if it is justified it can serve a constructive purpose.

    For example, I hate racism hence why I hate nazis. I hate sexism hence why I hate feminism. My feeling of hate towards sexism and racism drives me to act against ideologies that perpetuate these things.
    Then...could the same logic be applied --> I hate homophobia so I hate muslims.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    I don't feel that hate is a bad thing if it is directed towards an evil....
    What people think of as evil is highly subjective, however.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Then...could the same logic be applied --> I hate homophobia so I hate muslims.
    If you can justify this hatred...sure!! No, I am going to take it one step further. I believe if you can justify that something is evil/wrong then it becomes your obligation to hate it and take action against it..
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    If you can justify this hatred...sure!!
    In what way do you act against feminism/nazism?
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    If you can justify this hatred...sure!! no, i believe if you can justify that something is evil/wrong then it becomes your obligation to hate it and take action against it..
    Perpetuating hate. Lovely.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    What people think of as evil is highly subjective, however.
    We live in a world where reality is independent of our thoughts. ....we can think that the world is flat. That subjective opinion does not change the reality that our world is oval. As in, there is one universal truth. If our subjective opinions do not conform with this truth...they are wrong.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    If you can justify this hatred...sure!! No, I am going to take it one step further. I believe if you can justify that something is evil/wrong then it becomes your obligation to hate it and take action against it..
    So you think groups like Westboro Baptist Church, like ISIS, etc are fine and dandy?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    So you think groups like Westboro Baptist Church, like ISIS, etc are fine and dandy?
    I don't know anything about the former but the latter i feel is an evil that needs action to end it. I can justify that they are evil. I can objectively prove that ISIS's subjective opinions are wrong and evil and hence worthy of my hate and war.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Perpetuating hate. Lovely.
    perpetuate an intense dislike for evil? Yes sir, with pride!!!
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    I don't know anything about the former but the latter i feel is an evil that needs action to end it. I can justify that they are evil. I can objectively prove that ISIS's subjective opinions are wrong and evil and hence worthy of my hate and war.
    You're missing the point.

    And how can you objectively prove anything?
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    I can objectively prove that ISIS's subjective opinions are wrong and evil and hence worthy of my hate and war.
    As far as they're concerned, they can say the same about your opinions, that you're worthy of their hate.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    You're missing the point.
    No my friend, you are missing the point. The point being that we live in an objective reality that is independent of our subjective thoughts and so subjective opinions do not matter until they are objectively proven to be true of our reality.

    (Original post by hezzlington)
    And how can you objectively prove anything?
    Through reliable science. This world that we live in has set laws that are independent of our thoughts (a fixed universal reality that applies to everyone). Everything that does not conform with this reality, with the set laws of nature, can be proven to be wrong. That is why we do research. That is why debate. We debate and research in the endeavour to reach the universal truths of our reality, which is independent of our thoughts. Sometimes this endeavour is easy. Other times its hard work.
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    Wrong. I don't hate any group. I hate everyone just as much as everyone else
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    No my friend, you are missing the point. The point being that we live in an objective reality that is independent of our subjective thoughts and so subjective opinions do not matter until they are justified to be true of our reality.
    That's a load of waffle so I'll give that one a miss.

    (Original post by CookieButter)
    Through reliable science. This world that we live in has set laws that are independent of our thoughts.
    Set laws? We define what those laws are. Science is a man made construct. We are totally required to think about them.

    (Original post by CookieButter)
    A fixed reality that is independent of our thoughts. Everything that does not conform with this reality, with the set laws of nature, can be proven to be wrong. That is why we do research. That is why debate. We debate and research in the endeavour to reach the universal truths of our reality, which is independent of our thoughts. Sometimes this endeavour is easy. Other times its hard work.
    A bit more irrelevant waffle. That's some strong salvia you've got there.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    As far as they're concerned, they can say the same about your opinions, that you're worthy of their hate.
    I believe that ISIS is wrong. They believe that they are right. These are two contradictory views. They can't both be right because the truth of one implies the falsity of the other Drewski. One of us has to be wrong in our way of thinking. This is the beauty of the world that we live in. We live in a world based on universal truths and we endeavour to find these universal truths. Once we reach a universal truth it should apply to everyone with equity. If the universal truth concerning ISIS is that they are evil and they choose to carry on in their endeavour, an endeavour which involves hurting other people, they are deserving of intense dislike and action.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    If you can justify this hatred...sure!! No, I am going to take it one step further. I believe if you can justify that something is evil/wrong then it becomes your obligation to hate it and take action against it..
    Hate the system that causes these ideas if there is a causal link, fine - but to hate all people of a certain disposition even if they don't necessarily support what you hate due just to that disposition is illogical. I do not like Islam, I do not have anything against individual muslims and I certainly don't hate them. I might hate some of their actions, but I cannot in good faith label them all the same because ISIS did a thing, or some madman drove a truck into people. Some condemn him and therefore I support them, which is why I hate the ideas not their mouthpieces.

    (Original post by hezzlington)

    Set laws? We define what those laws are. Science is a man made construct. We are totally required to think about them.
    No, science is the method of observing objective reality. If humans had never bothered with science, gravity would still exist, pack formations in animals would still exist etc etc. We don't define the laws of gravity - the dinosaurs didn't just float about - we just observe and measure them. Some of what science produces is evidenced assertions but it strives to be built on a base as close to objective reality as can be had. If I say one thing and you say another, there is debate about the thing. There is an objectively correct viewpoint for the most part (obviously excluding things like [moral] philosophy and suchlike) for example in a court case. The events only happened one way, but by interpretative argument they can be presented enormously differently. Science is cutting away the bs and finding that objective truth, as the judge is expected to do in the theoretical case.

    Just because humans design a way to measure these things, which may be imperfect, does not mean they cease to exist in a single objectively true manner.
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)

    No, science is the method of observing objective reality. If humans had never bothered with science, gravity would still exist, pack formations in animals would still exist etc etc.
    Sort of. It's about refining our methods of observing objective reality. All we can do is measure, and observe, quantify, define. Science is the language of the natural world; it's still a man made construct. Gravity would still exist, but how would we describe it? We could call it God.

    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    We don't define the laws of gravity
    We quite literally do. Our understanding could be flawed/limited..? (which it is, btw)

    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    Some of what science produces is evidenced assertions but it strives to be built on a base as close to objective reality as can be had
    Yes, that's generally the idea.


    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    .Science is cutting away the bs and finding that objective truth
    And this is why science is extremely difficult - easier said than done.

    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    Just because humans design a way to measure these things, which may be imperfect, does not mean they cease to exist in a single objectively true manner.
    They always are imperfect. I didn't say or implied they ceased to exist.
 
 
 
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